Canon R5 II Kneejerk First Impressions on the R5II

Jake Shoots Birds

Jake Shoots Birds

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I took the day off and headed to Allen's Camera to pick up my R5II and a couple batteries. It was a beautiful day so I was looking forward to a chance to test it out. Two things got in the way of that.

First, man, the menus have changed. I went side-by-side with my R5 as I walked through the settings and it took a while to get things set. Additionally, my internet was down, so I didn't have access to the user manual, which like most is now online/downloadable only, so there were a bunch of new focus point options and metering options that I wasn't 100% on. At least I had some time to kill as the batteries charged.

The other issue is that this beautiful day was windy as heck, so the flying things I love to shoot weren't behaving in a way that was conducive to shooting.

That said, there's this butterfly bush outside my garage, and there was activity there, so I headed over with the 100-500mm attached. There were 3 or 4 Skippers on it, these tiny butterflies less than an inch across. I've shot them before with the R5 but I needed to use single point focus to grab them because animal eye detection had no shot against the busy flower groups the plant has. And on a windy day? Forget about it!! So when the R5II not only immediately locked on the first Skipper I aimed it at, but stayed locked as the plant blew back and forth across the viewfinder I was dumbfounded. As Ben Kenobi might say, this is the focus system you've been looking for!!

I posted about this elsewhere, but I shot Raw and JPEG because I wasn't sure if yesterday's Adobe updates would include updates to profiles. So I was happy to find that outside of some lens corrections (which I had turned off for JPEGs in camera) the colors are pretty darn close (I'm sure someone will do additional, more scientific testing). DxO Pure Raw still needs an update, but I can invoke my old pal DeNoise AI so I've got that covered when I need it.

Gonna be a busy week, so I'm not going to have a lot of time before the weekend to shoot (but who knows?!), but I wanted to at least answer the question that was asked about whether R5 shooters felt the upgrade is worth it? It's not an insignificant cost outlay, but it's also not an insignificant upgrade. I can't give the full argument to support my claim, but I would say that if you've ever been frustrated with the R5 not focusing on the regular, then you need to consider upgrading. I've not truly tested it at this point, just aimed and shot, but for sure I'm shooting a lot more quickly after aiming with the Mk II.

I'll post more over time, and now that I have 3 fully charged batteries I'll be able to test everything. And for the curious, I did stick a 3rd party battery in and the camera powered up, giving the same message it does with an old Canon battery saying that certain functions are unavailable, but once that message is dismissed I got a battery error message. I expect that there will be 3rd party batteries coming for the R5II, but wanted to let you know what I saw.

And for the curious, this is a Skipper. Not a great shot, but it was the first shot, taken about a second after I aimed at one for the first time.

J50_0008-Edit-sharpened.jpg
 
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LOL I guess you can't properly hyphenate "knee-****" in a title without the forum software censoring the second half. Let's see if it happens here?!
 
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BradS said:
Thanks for the first impressions. Sounds good.
Did you find you could process the RAW files in Adobe Lightroom/ACR?
Click to expand...
ACR had support for the Mk II in the last version, but stated that it was preliminary. These all loaded into Lightroom with no issue, and the colors on the RAW images were pretty darn close to the JPEGs I also shot, so I have to believe the profiles were updated in yesterday's release.

Screenshot 2024-08-21 at 9.42.22 AM.png
 
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Thanks for the early feedback/review, and I look forward to any future updates.
 
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Found the AF quite good, but it would occasionally jump around when in a busy bush with birds flitting around.
So, as per recommendations from Jan Wegener, I set the Case to M and the Sensitivity to -2 and the Acel/Decel to -1.
Fixed that issue. YMMV.
 
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RedCobra said:
Found the AF quite good, but it would occasionally jump around when in a busy bush with birds flitting around.
So, as per recommendations from Jan Wegener, I set the Case to M and the Sensitivity to -2 and the Acel/Decel to -1.
Fixed that issue. YMMV.
Click to expand...
I found the same and did the same, also thanks to Jan. If I held the BB focus on a target, it would switch to the honeycomb after about 2 or 3 seconds. Changing to M, -2, and -1 seemed to settle this down, but I didn't have any good opportunities to track birds this evening.
 
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Just a quicky, but 500mm f/7.1 10kISO, 1/1600
Eye AF, bird subject, Servo

Note the bird is sharp and the wood is OOF. It nailed the bird and didn't hunt.
Bird in Tree R52.jpg
 
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Dave Williams said:
How are you finding the wake up speed of the new body? Any faster than the Mk1?
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I haven't paid particular attention to it, so I can't tell you if it's any better. I spent most of the weekend waiting for Bluebird babies to leave their nest box, so there was a lot of sleeping, and I did find myself occasionally frustrated while I waited for the viewfinder to wake up, so I think I'm safe in saying that if it's better then it's not substantially better. But I will try and test them side by side this afternoon and let you know.
 
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Jake Shoots Birds said:
I haven't paid particular attention to it, so I can't tell you if it's any better. I spent most of the weekend waiting for Bluebird babies to leave their nest box, so there was a lot of sleeping, and I did find myself occasionally frustrated while I waited for the viewfinder to wake up, so I think I'm safe in saying that if it's better then it's not substantially better. But I will try and test them side by side this afternoon and let you know.
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Thanks Jake.
 
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Dave Williams said:
How are you finding the wake up speed of the new body? Any faster than the Mk1?
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Alas, Dave, there seems to be almost no appreciable difference. It might be 10% faster, and anything is a plus, but it's not something I think you'd notice switching between the two.
 
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Thanks Jake. A shame but you can't have everything. The reported improvement in AF acquisition and stickiness is enviable but I would have liked an improvement in ISO performance as well especially as I'm now resigned to using lighter weight lenses like the 100-500 and the 200-800 when I have to carry them any distance.
 
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Dave Williams said:
Thanks Jake. A shame but you can't have everything. The reported improvement in AF acquisition and stickiness is enviable but I would have liked an improvement in ISO performance as well especially as I'm now resigned to using lighter weight lenses like the 100-500 and the 200-800 when I have to carry them any distance.
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I'm reserving any comment on that until I see what DxO and Adobe come up with for NR after having some time with production RAW files, but so far I've had no real issues with the images I've shot, and given that most of them have been ISO 2000 and higher with the same lenses mentioned, I think it's an internet nit to pick at this point more than anything else.

I was texting with the person I know at Canon and mentioned this and they said spoke about the results using the in-camera Neural Network AI noise reduction on RAW files and how amazing it is. I didn't respond only because a) I had never heard of it for NR, and b) NO ONE else has mentioned it. That said, when I come back with over 1000 images in an afternoon's shooting there's not a chance in h-e-double-hockey-sticks (thanks, forum software) that I'm using an in-camera function to clean up images. But I will hunt it down a bit.
 
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ctitanic said:
Here is some info about Intelligent Noise Reduction.

Product Details

mcu.canon mcu.canon

www.digitalcameraworld.com

Canon’s new camera AI can correct noise through deep learning technology

Canon aims to fix the unavoidable image quality problems most of us face with new AI that can fix noise, blur, and color
www.digitalcameraworld.com www.digitalcameraworld.com
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And I read it before posting here. It scrapes the surface of the "what", but says nothing about the "when" or "how". Are they applying it to the RAW file when I press the button, or is it an option when pulling it into DPP4? It sounded like it's "in-camera" from the text I got from the Canon person, but while I haven't spent a lot of time looking (I did 3 searches using different terms) I can't seem to get a clear answer, and everything I read seems to point to it simply being their version of Denoise AI and Pure Raw.
 
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Jake Shoots Birds said:
And I read it before posting here. It scrapes the surface of the "what", but says nothing about the "when" or "how". Are they applying it to the RAW file when I press the button, or is it an option when pulling it into DPP4? It sounded like it's "in-camera" from the text I got from the Canon person, but while I haven't spent a lot of time looking (I did 3 searches using different terms) I can't seem to get a clear answer, and everything I read seems to point to it simply being their version of Denoise AI and Pure Raw.
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Even if it's in camera most likely will create a jpg, it will not apply directly in the RAW.
 
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ctitanic said:
Even if it's in camera most likely will create a jpg, it will not apply directly in the RAW.
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And that's my thinking, but that's not what seems to be implied every time I hear about it. I'm guessing that it's in DPP, but I don't care enough at this point to find out. LOL
 
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Jake Shoots Birds said:
I'm reserving any comment on that until I see what DxO and Adobe come up with for NR after having some time with production RAW files, but so far I've had no real issues with the images I've shot, and given that most of them have been ISO 2000 and higher with the same lenses mentioned, I think it's an internet nit to pick at this point more than anything else.

I was texting with the person I know at Canon and mentioned this and they said spoke about the results using the in-camera Neural Network AI noise reduction on RAW files and how amazing it is. I didn't respond only because a) I had never heard of it for NR, and b) NO ONE else has mentioned it. That said, when I come back with over 1000 images in an afternoon's shooting there's not a chance in h-e-double-hockey-sticks (thanks, forum software) that I'm using an in-camera function to clean up images. But I will hunt it down a bit.
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Where do you turn this on. I recently started using Highlight tone priority. I didn't know it worked on RAW files which it does. Helps prevent blown out highlights.
edit. Just learned the upscale and AI NR only does Jpegs and HEIFs and it's not when you take the photo, Lots of button presses and one at a time process, but will be available as a LR plug-in.
 
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OK - I found it!!

All the Neural Network AI features for RAW files are available in the "Neural Network Image Processing Tool" that is a part of the "Expanded Feature Set" of DPP4, and only accessible after you have "selected a plan" (ie. paid for it). For a year in the US that's $50.

Having already paid for Topaz Denoise AI and DxO Pure Raw, I shant be giving this one a shot.
 
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Oh well....Canon doesn't want my money because files from my EOS R are not supported...oh well...I really didn't want to pay 5.31€ to try it for a month.
 
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Jake Shoots Birds said:
OK - I found it!!

All the Neural Network AI features for RAW files are available in the "Neural Network Image Processing Tool" that is a part of the "Expanded Feature Set" of DPP4, and only accessible after you have "selected a plan" (ie. paid for it). For a year in the US that's $50.

Having already paid for Topaz Denoise AI and DxO Pure Raw, I shant be giving this one a shot.
Click to expand...
Me shant either :D ...although, with the current exchange rate, it's the equivalent of only 38USD a year, here in Japan.
 
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Just uploaded the European version of DPP and this paid tool is only available in Microsoft Windows, not the Apple version.
Not that it matters to me as I wasn't going to buy in to it anyway.

I had a long session with my new toy yesterday and found it much to my liking other than I accidentally kept turning the switch to Video mode. For some reason when I was using my EF 500mm f4 it kept switching to f4.5
Overall the camera won't deliver better images than the R5 I don't think. The same number of pixels, very similar ISO performance but maybe rolling shutter might no longer be an issue. In my hide set up it was never going to be an issue yesterday anyway.
What the camera will do is give you a better chance of maximising its performance though. The AF is definitely better, the AF cases have all but gone and are pre-programmed in the people, animal, vehicle choice. You can adjust them if you want but I found they worked well yesterday and finding a small bird in a bush was much easier than in the past. I like the fact you can control the number of shots in a burst. Taking 20 shots at the merest press of the electronic shutter delivered far too many images. What I intend to do is set up custom functions that will allow my to switch from a low FPS to a high one in an instant using the MF-N button to which I have already programmed the settings Some of the information delivered is useful too. If I switch to a custom function and adjust the pre-registered settings it tells me on the screen that I have changed them. Stuff like that can be useful .
I have an open mind about the pre burst function. You have to have the shutter button half depressed so it's constantly using battery power and at the end of the day you gain half a second. I think I prefer to sit back with the camera tripod mounted and use a wireless remote as I presume you can't half press with a wired one. It won't work in every situation but for me and wildlife it probably will.
Overall a very positive start for this amateur photographer. The Kingfisher didn't perform as I wished but not a bad bird for my first outing.
Common Kingfisher.jpeg
 
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Dave Williams said:
I think I prefer to sit back with the camera tripod mounted and use a wireless remote as I presume you can't half press with a wired one.
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Wired remotes have (or at least can have) the half press ability. Just received a Vello brand one yesterday with the N3 connector. The button has a very distinct half-press feel and that ability is specifically called out. The wired remotes have three wires: common, half-press, and full press.

The lack of a simple half-press is what keeps me from using my phone as a trigger more often. I think you can sort of do that half-press by touching the screen but it's not the same at all.
 
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Dave Williams said:
Overall the camera won't deliver better images than the R5 I don't think. The same number of pixels, very similar ISO performance but maybe rolling shutter might no longer be an issue. In my hide set up it was never going to be an issue yesterday anyway.
Click to expand...
No new camera will ever supply "better images", only the potential for improving your chances of creating one if you take advantage of the improvements. On these grounds I will respectfully disagree with you, even as I accept your caveats. 30fps and pre-capture alone increase the odds of you capturing that "better image". Even without precapture you now have 10 additional captures each second that you weren't capable of previously. There isn't a bird photographer on the planet who hasn't gone back and forth between two images trying to decide which is better while wishing there was one more in between.

Now granted, you go on to speak to how these features are merely excessive for your needs, and having weeded through cconsiderably more images in a week than I have, on average, before, I understand the desire not to have to do that. But it's really not "far too many images", it's just more than you need most of the time. With the R5 I was frustrated by rolling shutter so I simply shot first curtain at 12fps and was happy. I almost never changed, and while I set them I never used my C1-C3 modes as my variations were just as easily done normally and I never forgot to undo them. Now I have each of them set with variations of frame rates and pre-capture combinations which I can toggle through in anticipation of a shot, shooting 15fps normally, but with 20 & 30 in the custom settings - the ones I use when I want the shot at that "better image".

I'm not saying you're wrong to think this way. I'd just be surprised if a year from now you'd stand by that first statement. ;)
 
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Jake Shoots Birds said:
No new camera will ever supply "better images", only the potential for improving your chances of creating one if you take advantage of the improvements. On these grounds I will respectfully disagree with you, even as I accept your caveats. 30fps and pre-capture alone increase the odds of you capturing that "better image". Even without precapture you now have 10 additional captures each second that you weren't capable of previously. There isn't a bird photographer on the planet who hasn't gone back and forth between two images trying to decide which is better while wishing there was one more in between.

Now granted, you go on to speak to how these features are merely excessive for your needs, and having weeded through cconsiderably more images in a week than I have, on average, before, I understand the desire not to have to do that. But it's really not "far too many images", it's just more than you need most of the time. With the R5 I was frustrated by rolling shutter so I simply shot first curtain at 12fps and was happy. I almost never changed, and while I set them I never used my C1-C3 modes as my variations were just as easily done normally and I never forgot to undo them. Now I have each of them set with variations of frame rates and pre-capture combinations which I can toggle through in anticipation of a shot, shooting 15fps normally, but with 20 & 30 in the custom settings - the ones I use when I want the shot at that "better image".

I'm not saying you're wrong to think this way. I'd just be surprised if a year from now you'd stand by that first statement. ;)
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You are assuming that all the shots I take are action ones Jake. I have always preferred silent shutter, particularly in a hide situation so I had no option but to shoot 20fps on the R5, even when the subject was sat perfectly motionless . The end result was deleting perfectly sharp images I didn't need. I now no longer need to do this. I can toggle from 5fps to 30 in an instant.
Rolling shutter wasn't too much of an issue for me with the R5 until I took a trip to Costa Rica and it was all too obvious on Hummingbird shots. As yet I am not able to pass judgement as I haven't had suitable subject matter . If it is no longer an issue then the R5ii can deliver better images than before.
As for the pre-burst, again I'll wait and see when I have had more opportunities to see the results. I do know that when I was waiting for action with my finger half depressed on the shutter button I would miss the millisecond the Kingfisher flew and as it was no longer in the frame I'd take my finger off the trigger instead of depressing it. Old habits die hard! Where the action remains in the frame I am sure I would have pressed the button and possibly caught the image I was looking for like these sibling Foxes that leap in to action with little pre warning.
Sibling fights.jpeg


I don't think we are that far apart in our opinions to be honest Jake. I'm certainly not negative about the R5ii, on the contrary I'm delighted with it.
As an aside, I bought the R5 in November 2020. Nearly four years later and much sooner after launch I paid £300 less for my R5ii despite inflation over the last four years. Bit of a bargain!
 
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