An alternate to BBF

[Only RF]

for it's intended purpose? Sorry in advance for any typos. I'm really bad for that. I can proof 5 times and still miss it. I'll tweak as needed when I read this again.

Many years ago professionals requested Canon for the BBF system which made a big difference. When mirrorless arrived I followed the traditional set up and split Metering and AF between the shutter and AF-ON buttons. Eye Detect is simply amazing but it is still a computer trying to figure out what we want. I wondered how could I gain control over it?

Over a year ago I started to think outside the box. I decided that AF is so good on the mirrorless bodies I went back to the factory settings and left both Metering and AF on the shutter button. This free up the AF-ON. The caveat is you have to keep the shutter half pressed. I shot like that for 5 years with my 7D and only assigned the AF-ON for AF with my 7D2 so the transition to go back was not as difficult. Besides the ML bodies have a great little feature - AF Preview or Initial AF for the R5 and 6. When in Eye Detect and you raise the shutter past ½ way the AF preview square kicks in and the system continues to AF. You will notice that when you wake the camera up the AF Preview starts to look for an eye before you press any buttons.

I've been shooting this way for over a year now and have assigned the AF-ON, the * button and AF point selection buttons for different AF modes to, for a better word override Eye Detect when it is struggling. For the R7 I use the DOF because you can't map the magnifier for AF. I use this method continually as it gives me total control.

Just some background. I purchased this similar video tutorial which has some good techniques. One method was to create two files in Lightroom, one for subject NR, the other for background, send both PS and layer them. Since the advanced masking in LrC 11 that method is not as necessary.

I'm not starting this thread to promote Adobe or purchase Steve Perry's tutorials. Just some background on who he is.

Noise Reduction Using Lightroom And Photoshop – Virtual Workshop – Backcountry Gallery Web Store

I was searching for something else last night and came across this. I haven't seen too many videos that explain this. I attempt to but a picture is a thousand words.

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The only difference is when Steve uses the BBF he places the single point on the eye of the subject. I don't do that because it is the systems job to find the eye. I paid a lot of money for that feature so I just place it anywhere on my subject, release the BBF and the eye snaps in. I also don't move the AF around anymore. I've not activated the joystick nor do I use the LCD. Too slow. I press a BBF, physically move the camera to land the AF on my subject and release the BFF. I even use Zone AF for this purchase. As long as your subject is in the plane of focus it will find the eye.

What I like about my method is I don't have to lift my thumb off the AF-ON and press the * to override. I just keep the shutter half pressed and use a BBF as needed.

 

[jcass]

BBF for me. My mind and hands are trained to use the camera that way. For me the big change goes along with the increased customization of the buttons. I now use a triple BBF configuration: AF-On == eye detect AF, * == zone AF, and Point-Sel + * == spot AF. All three of these include metering plus 8 seconds. In my setup, the shutter button now does AE-Lock on half-press.

I'm still getting used to this setup change, but I like the flexibility in switching AF modes instantly. It is a complicating system that takes time to become second nature though. I'm not there yet.

I think the key point in Steve's video and why I still prefer BBF is that I want to be able to take photos without the AF system active and I'm horrible at manual focus.

 

[Only RF]

It's not for everyone. Just a different approach that someone may be interested in. If not just as good.

 

[JustUs7]

Whenever I see the word, “Need”, this pops into my head. It’s a reflex.

 

[Only RF]

Lol. Helmet would fold without his. Gotta love Mel. "The real money is merchandise".

 

[tpatana]

My 2c:

Modern AF chips are so much better than old ones that the original reason for BBF is not there anymore.

However, for those who already have their muscle memory working with BBF there's no harm either so it's ok to keep using if you're used to it.

 

[PGM]

I have never understood the reason for BBF. Several advocates have tried to explain it to me but could not explain the advantages over using the half press on the shutter button. It's still using the same sensors to focus on matter which button you use so the focus will only be as good as the camera system and settings allow.

 

[Only RF]

Not there isn't.

 

[Only RF]

I decided to change the title of this thread. My intent was to explore other shooting methods, not to suggest BBF shouldn't be used for AF but I guess it came across that way. I've read quite a few threads of people new to mirrorless learning to navigate around this new tech. I was one of them.

 

[hedleyw]

I have never understood the reason for BBF. Several advocates have tried to explain it to me but could not explain the advantages over using the half press on the shutter button. It's still using the same sensors to focus on matter which button you use so the focus will only be as good as the camera system and settings allow.

By separating the functions you can choose whenever you want to focus, independent of pressing the shutter release. You have in effect both servo and one-shot focus / pre-focus without changing modes.

 

[Only RF]

Just to add many years ago pro photographers asked Canon for this feature. Not everyone finds it easy to keep the shutter ½ passed, especially between burst sequences while tracking a moving subject. When this feature was added AF was no where as sophisticated as it is today. If you lifted your finger off the shutter past half way AF would stop and it could be difficult to reacquire it again.

Removing AF from the shutter and assigning it to the AF-ON solved that problem. You could press and hold the AF-ON and AF is was engaged continually. The shutter was in charge of metering and of course exposure. If you lifted your finger off the shutter past ½ way AF is not interrupted.

Todays AF is so much more advanced. The most basic cameras are better than the high end ones from when that feature was added. Lighting quick AF acquisition, very good tracking not to mention eye AF.

As Bryan said these days there are so many more customizing options available with mirrorless cameras. When the AF-ON feature was first released that was it. AF-ON just activated AF. Maybe the D line had an option or two but no where near what even the R10 has today.

One day while trying to find better ways to control eye AF I asked myself, do I really need to remove AF off the shutter with mirrorless AF tech? By not doing so freed up another BBF to better control it. It may not work for others but I've really been enjoying shooting that way.

 

[Philnick]

The reason Back Button Focus was invented was so that pressing the shutter would not refocus after you had already focused where you wanted to. That concern is as valid now as ever. You've focused on something the camera might not select on its own. Do you want to let it second-guess you and focus somewhere else just as you press the shutter button?

I've recently switched from Servo AF to Single Shot on my R7 so it doesn't continually freelance and change where it's focusing. This way, it will continually focus Servo-style as long as I hold in the AF On button, but when I let go of that button focus will stay where it was.

What motivated the pros' request to Canon long ago was the need to prevent their focus on their chosen subject from being stolen away by someone or something else nearer as they pressed the shutter. That hasn't changed.

Automation is fine as long as we can choose when it operates but not when it decides to be a back-seat driver and grab the wheel uninvited.

For the same reason, I don't use autoexposure, just Manual exposure with a live histogram in the viewfinder. I don't want my exposure to continually change as I pan around a scene. I grew up with a match-needle exposure gauge in the viewfinder of my film SLR. I want to be the driver, not a passenger.

 

[Only RF]

I've been shooting with the shutter half pressed and or the AF-ON for AF and don't recall my cameras ever refocusing on anything else. I always have RS set to -2 so if something temporarily interferes with the subject it ignores it. It's a little different these days with eye detect because if another person obstructs my original subject it is obstruction with an eye. STS takes over.

This is the reason I used BBF before I started using it for an eye detect override. I can do this just as easily with the shutter ½ pressed. This frees up another BBF for overriding eye detect

Similar to point number one above, but yet another benefit of pulling focus away from the shutter button is that critical timing becomes simpler to manage. For example, if you were shooting a speaker at a podium, he or she might periodically look up or make a gesture that would be an ideal instant to capture. If you’ve focused with back-button AF, your index finger is free to shoot at the decisive moment. There are no worries about holding your finger half-way down and waiting, waiting, waiting in that position for your subject to do something interesting.

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART170279

 

[Only RF]

Just so I'm clear when use the shutter ½ pressed I track a bird and do series of burst shots. Between burst shots I find it easy to raise the shutter button back up to half way and not further so as to not lose AF. These if I do AF Preview kicks in. In a crowd I disable AF Preview if I want to track one subject.

 

[Philnick]

Found last night that eye detect wouldn't work at all in Single Shot mode and I had to put my R7 back into AI Servo mode for it to find anyone's eye.

Am I missing something?

 

[Only RF]

It should. Did you that by changing a mode like C1-3? I’ll test it and get back to you.

 

[Philnick]

No. I run with the mode dial set to M.

 

[Only RF]

I use M mode and C1-3 are also M. I have custom options for each mode. I was not sure so that was why I asked. You are sure you in Eye Detect?

 

[David Berry]

I use M mode and C1-C3 are also M. I have custom options for each mode.

That’s also my choice for my R5.

 

[Only RF]

Up in Canada and our football Western final is on. I’ll test at ½ time.

 

[Only RF]

Worked for me but it’s not like Servo which tracks before you take the shot. When I pressed the shutter AF locks onto something and takes the shot. If the eye is weak then it will find something else.

 

[Only RF]

Do you have AF Preview activated? Page 3 of the AF menus. It will tell you where the camera will focus on before you take the shot.

 

[Philnick]

I use M mode and C1-3 are also M. I have custom options for each mode. I was not sure so that was why I asked. You are sure you in Eye Detect?

Yes. I use animal detect, which works for people too. The only thing I changed to get eye detection working again was changing back from Single Shot AF to AI Servo.

 

[Only RF]

I don’t know how to answer that. Mine worked. It’s been many years since I’ve had it on one shot and I didn’t like it all that much. The AF point/s illuminate when the exposure happens. Could be an eye or something else. In Servo it shows me what it’s to focusing on before I press the shutter.

 

[tpatana]

What motivated the pros' request to Canon long ago was the need to prevent their focus on their chosen subject from being stolen away by someone or something else nearer as they pressed the shutter. That hasn't changed.

Modern bodies are fairly good at staying on the original target even if something else is moving around the frame or even blocking the target momentarily. There's no loss on using BBF either, so people who are used to that probably work better with their muscle memory, but with cameras like R5 and R3 I don't see similar benefit as it used to be with AF systems before object recognition.

 

[Only RF]

I came across this last night. Similar to what I do but I start with Whole Area AF and he starts with Expansion AF. It can be Single or Spot.

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[Only RF]

The 3 point AF is inserting. I was using it but never really broke down that way. That video gave me some ideas for a revamp of my BBF layout. I'm still using the shutter button for both AF and Metering.

I've assign the * button to toggle through the three AF modes. Single, Spot and Whole Area AF. As I did before I will always start with Whole Area AF because the entire array of AF points is in use. Great for BIF and for static objects as well. Let AI do its job first and find the eye. That is what I paid the big dollars for.

If Whole Area is struggling I can toggle to Single or Spot AF. I prefer Single point AF because it is larger so more contrast but use Spot when needed. For example Spot AF for small birds in thick foliage. That was the issue with my R7. You can't map the magnify button for an AF mode but you can map the R6II AF point selection button for AF mode. For the R7 I mapped Spot to the DOF which I did not like. That problem is now solved.

The white broken pre-focus square will be is active in all AF modes. Always looking for an eye.

Previously I assigned the AF-ON to Single Point AF for Eye Detect override. The * button for Zone AF but that button now has a different job. AF-ON now engages Zone AF for the Eye Detect override. Let's say the camera is struggling with a bird flying. I don't need precision. I just need to get it into some type of reasonable focus. Toggle the AF-ON as many times as need to achieve that and let AI do the rest when back in Whole Area. Even works great on static objects.

I can hardly wait to try this out.