Lighting question

[cdavison2022]

Hello all,
Writing with a lighting question: wondering if anyone has any recommendations or advice on reflectors or bounce boards? Am using an RF 24-105mm f/4-7.1 IS STM Lens along with two ring lights for portraits and videography, I love the way they make the skin and face look.
I set things up in my home studio such that my EOS R6 is pointing through the ring light then I adjust to high-temperature, cold light since the bright white light makes eyes and face glow. Problem is that I wear glasses and it seems like no matter what I do, there's a clearly visible reflection in my glasses. And when I set up both ring lights, I try to raise and lower them but they are still visible as reflections, I try to tilt them back and forward but they are still visible. Only way I've found to remove the ring light reflection from my glasses is when I set them off to the side, but then the eyes and face no longer glow and it produces heavy shadows on my chubby lil cheeks

So I'm trying to figure out how to do flat front lighting with a ring light (or two) to highlight the eyes and face but without a visible reflection in my glasses and I am stuck.

All I can think to do is to use a bounce board or a reflector to provide wash lighting, even and broad, with no defined shape(s) or visible reflection(s) in my glasses. Never done this before (you noticed already!), and am looking for recommendations and advice.

Thanks in advance for your consideration, any and all feedback most gratefully appreciated.

Chris

 

[Kwazy]

Hopefully someone with actual lighting experience will chime in, but here's my 2 cents.

The ring lights will always create unnatural reflections that will draw attention, whether it's in your glasses, your eyes, or something reflective on your desk in front of you. They're not very professional, and are probably designed for teenage girls to do their instas.

You may have to invest in actual studio lights, preferably with diffusers and reflectors. I'm sure internet is full of write-ups on how to do lighting properly.

 

[Glen]

Chris, Hopefully at some time in your life you played some Billards. Think of light like a pool ball being hit into a side cushion. Where does it go?
Light and reflections work the same way. The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of refraction, or reflection. So if the face and glasses are pointed straight at the lens and ring light, you will always have the bad reflection. Because the ring light is above and below the lens, having the subject raise or lower his nose won't help much. You would have more success turning the face to either side a bit. You could also move the ring light completely above the lens, then lowering the chin could help. Always think of the beam of light from any light source as a pool ball hitting a surface, it can only reflect off at the same angle. So you have to either move the light or turn the subject so the light does not reflect back to the lens. Remember if you shoot a pool ball straight into a bank it will always come straight back. Light is no different.

 

[Kwazy]

Think of light like a pool ball being hit into a side cushion. Where does it go?
Light and reflections work the same way. The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of refraction, or reflection. So if the face and glasses are pointed straight at the lens and ring light, you will always have the bad reflection. Because the ring light is above and below the lens, having the subject raise or lower his nose won't help much

Although a fun analogy, light is more like shooting a trillion tiny billiard balls in all directions rather than one, and the reflections become more problematic once you introduce curved surfaces. As the diagram below visually shows, light will emanate in all directions from a source (red star), and each of the "beams" will get reflected based on the "angle of reflection equal to angle of incidence" from a smooth surface. In the flat mirror's case (on the left) this creates a somewhat narrow field in which the reflection can be seen, but in the case of a curved reflective surface (on the right) such as eyeglasses, human eye, a cup, or a water carafe on the table, the light will bounce in basically all directions off of that surface, and you can't really hide that reflection. With a ring light, the reflection is a very obvious donut which doesn't exist in nature and thus will immediately draw attention. And as Glen also pointed out, since the ring light is right on the lens, you'll always see its reflection in pretty much anything reflective in front of the camera. Better off using a point source, and one covered by a diffuser is even better.

 

[Glen]

Yup, all very true, thanks for posting that.
I was just trying to explain that in a way that is a way a novice could understand quickly. Can't tell you how many times I used this pool ball analogy over the years to explain lighting to new assistants who were graduates of the best photo schools, but had no idea about lighting. The pool ball was just something basic they seemed to quickly grasp. The fine fineness, that takes a lifetime...

 

[cdavison2022]

Hopefully someone with actual lighting experience will chime in, but here's my 2 cents.

The ring lights will always create unnatural reflections that will draw attention, whether it's in your glasses, your eyes, or something reflective on your desk in front of you. They're not very professional, and are probably designed for teenage girls to do their instas.

You may have to invest in actual studio lights, preferably with diffusers and reflectors. I'm sure internet is full of write-ups on how to do lighting properly.

Sounds about right, ring lights create a nice catchlight in the eye but the reflection off of glasses is hard to get around. So whether it's a diffuser or a reflector or both, and which one(s) to get is what I'll need to get figured.

 

[cdavison2022]

Chris, Hopefully at some time in your life you played some Billards. Think of light like a pool ball being hit into a side cushion. Where does it go?
Light and reflections work the same way. The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of refraction, or reflection. So if the face and glasses are pointed straight at the lens and ring light, you will always have the bad reflection. Because the ring light is above and below the lens, having the subject raise or lower his nose won't help much. You would have more success turning the face to either side a bit. You could also move the ring light completely above the lens, then lowering the chin could help. Always think of the beam of light from any light source as a pool ball hitting a surface, it can only reflect off at the same angle. So you have to either move the light or turn the subject so the light does not reflect back to the lens. Remember if you shoot a pool ball straight into a bank it will always come straight back. Light is no different.

Right on, good analogy. Changing the angle and position of the ring lights hasn't been very effective (except for side lighting, which gives bad shadows) and so am wondering if you have any recommendations or advice on reflectors or bounce boards? Am thinking of a large, white reflector oval or panel, point the right light directly at it (i.e,, directly away from me) so that most or all of the bright white light gets softly bounced back at me but without the ring light reflection.

 

[cdavison2022]

Although a fun analogy, light is more like shooting a trillion tiny billiard balls in all directions rather than one, and the reflections become more problematic once you introduce curved surfaces. As the diagram below visually shows, light will emanate in all directions from a source (red star), and each of the "beams" will get reflected based on the "angle of reflection equal to angle of incidence" from a smooth surface. In the flat mirror's case (on the left) this creates a somewhat narrow field in which the reflection can be seen, but in the case of a curved reflective surface (on the right) such as eyeglasses, human eye, a cup, or a water carafe on the table, the light will bounce in basically all directions off of that surface, and you can't really hide that reflection. With a ring light, the reflection is a very obvious donut which doesn't exist in nature and thus will immediately draw attention. And as Glen also pointed out, since the ring light is right on the lens, you'll always see its reflection in pretty much anything reflective in front of the camera. Better off using a point source, and one covered by a diffuser is even better.


View attachment 10518

Yes, that is a big part of the issue, glasses and eyes are curved and reflective surfaces. And from an aesthetic point of view, a clearly visible ring light reflection in someone's eye is a beautiful catchlight and to be desired whereas a clearly visible ring light reflection in someone's eyeglasses looks awful.
What would recommend in terms of point source(s) in terms of lighting the eyes?

 

[PB Aus]

Hi ..following up on the suggestion to research you tube...try this

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

PB

 

[cdavison2022]

Thanks Pete!

 

[Glen]

Right on, good analogy. Changing the angle and position of the ring lights hasn't been very effective (except for side lighting, which gives bad shadows) and so am wondering if you have any recommendations or advice on reflectors or bounce boards? Am thinking of a large, white reflector oval or panel, point the right light directly at it (i.e,, directly away from me) so that most or all of the bright white light gets softly bounced back at me but without the ring light reflection.

Chris, For location work there are a lot of collapsible reflectors that are fabric with a spring strap of metal around the edge. They work good and take up little space when folded. Lots of sizes and shapes. I think Photoflex is one brand but there are many. For in the studio I always had a stack of 4x8 sheets of 1/4 inch thick foam core board that were white on one side and black on the other. Very fast to cut with a razor knife to any size you need. The black side comes in handy to use as a negative reflector when you want a side of something darker, like the shadow side of a face. You can tape two 4x8 sheets together and you have a V flat shape that helps if you want to make a more directional soft light. You can also use mirrors or chrome poster boards as reflectors for a different effect. For a softer reflection spray some dulling spray or matt lacquer on the mirror. Glass store usually have mirror scraps and cut offs that they will sell cheap. They really come in handy for small produce photography. You can also shine a light through a white bead sheet or a translucent shower curtain. (just don't start a fire if using hot lights) The options are limitless so don't be afraid to experiment.

 

[cdavison2022]

Thanks Glen,
I got myself a set of collapsible reflectors, fabric and different colors. If I can't get a good 'bounce' light with these then will try a white bead sheet or a translucent shower curtain as a filter/diffuser for the ring lights.

 

[cdavison2022]

Hi ..following up on the suggestion to research you tube...try this

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

PB

thanks PB!