Canon R5 II Metering and AE lock

[thegios]

Hi I need some help with metering and AE lock...

I understand that by default R5 Mk2 is not linking metering to AF points. This is “somehow” possible but only for EVALUATIVE and for SUBJECTS DETECTED, by enabling AE FOR PRIORITY SUBJECTS DURING AF: See screenshots (1) in attached image.

QUESTION 1: does this apply only to PEOPLE, ANIMALS and VEHICLES? If I am in EVALUATIVE and an OBJECT is detected, where is the metering taken?

I also understand that AE lock is taken at (automatically) chosen AF point in EVALUATIVE and at the centre for all other metering modes: See screenshots (2) in attached image.

QUESTION 2: if AE FOR PRIORITY SUBJECTS DURING AF is OFF, which means that metering is based on the entire screen, where is then the exposure taken?

 

[thegios]

No one here?

 

[AntonLargiader]

I don't have an R5ii but I can give you my interpretation of what the manual says. It may or may not be correct.

1) I don't see why this should be restricted to people/animals/vehicle rather than also including "Auto" if you have it. Do you? What are the options? As long as it's not "None" you should get the AF-linked metering.

2)

if AE FOR PRIORITY SUBJECTS DURING AF is OFF, which means that metering is based on the entire screen,

Under circumstances other than (("Detect priority AE while AF" = ON) and (Metering = Evaluative)) it does whatever metering you select. Could be the entire screen, but don't you still have options for Spot, Partial, etc? The effect of all of the metering modes should be in the manual.

 

[thegios]

I don't have an R5ii but I can give you my interpretation of what the manual says. It may or may not be correct.

Option 1 is new to the R5 Mk2, not present on R5 and on R6 Mk2, reason why we are all having difficulties in interpretation of this setting

1) I don't see why this should be restricted to people/animals/vehicle rather than also including "Auto" if you have it. Do you? What are the options? As long as it's not "None" you should get the AF-linked metering.

I have AUTO but still AUTO means it detects automatically people, animals and vehicles, if he detects none of them than focus on the closest object. I am an engineer so I tend to be very specific with words, while Canon is not... If I read Canon manual to me SUBJECT is either one of the three mentioned also in the settings (vehicle, people, animal), a chair in focus to me should not be a SUBJECT according to Canon manual, since it's not listed under SUBJECT TO DETECT. You see what I mean? For me there is a difference between POINT IN FOCUS and SUBJECT IN FOCUS: the latter being a special case of the former l.

So my interpretation here is different:
- off > metering based on whole screen
- on > metering based on DETECTED SUBJECT, so if there's none (no people, no animals, no vehicles) even if focus is on a chair than metering is based on whole screen. And also, if there's a DETECTED SUBJECT (a vehicle, a person or an animal), does this mean that you get exposure considering only the subject or metering is still based on whole area but weighted more on the subject?

2)

Under circumstances other than (("Detect priority AE while AF" = ON) and (Metering = Evaluative)) it does whatever metering you select. Could be the entire screen, but don't you still have options for Spot, Partial, etc? The effect of all of the metering modes should be in the manual.

With spot, partial etc I know metering is based on center only, but many people, reading option 2 about where exposure is centered, understand that evaluative is based on whole area but weighted on focus point, reason why we all have doubts on option 1.

If I translate I would interpret the following ways in EVALUATIVE:

- OPTION 1 OFF + SUBJECT TO DETECT ON or OFF: metering considers whole area but is weighted more on POINT in focus.

- OPTION 1 ON+ SUBJECT TO DETECT OFF: metering considers whole area but is weighted more on POINT in focus (like above).

- OPTION 1 ON + SUBJECT TO DETECT ON: metering considers only SUBJECT in focus.

 

[AntonLargiader]

If I read Canon manual to me SUBJECT is either one of the three mentioned also in the settings (vehicle, people, animal), a chair in focus to me should not be a SUBJECT according to Canon manual, since it's not listed under SUBJECT TO DETECT

Do you have the R5ii? If so, does it track a subject that's not a person, an animal or a vehicle? I suspect it does.

With spot, partial etc I know metering is based on center only, but many people, reading option 2 about where exposure is centered, understand that evaluative is based on whole area but weighted on focus point, reason why we all have doubts on option 1.

I don't understand the confusion. I think the "Effect of AE lock" part is pretty clear: if you are in evaluative with subject priority enabled, the metering will bias toward either the active AF point or the selected AF point, depending on what AF Area you have chosen. I don't understand what there is in this wording that would be giving everyone doubts. Evaluative normally looks at the whole frame, and with AF priority it biases more toward the AF area.

 

[thegios]

Do you have the R5ii? If so, does it track a subject that's not a person, an animal or a vehicle? I suspect it does.

It does but one thing is tracking, another thing is metering.

IEvaluative normally looks at the whole frame, and with AF priority it biases more toward the AF area.

Well yes and no.
Let me ask you: in canon cameras before R5Mk2 (so even R5 or R6Mk2 or even old reflex) does evaluative, in considering the whole scene, have a bias more toward focus point?

 

[AntonLargiader]

It does but one thing is tracking, another thing is metering.

The goal was to establish if a thing that isn't a person, animal, or vehicle is a subject for the purposes of detection. You hypothesized that it wasn't but this indicates that it is a subject. To me, it sounds like "Subject to detect" allows you to optimize detection for specific subjects but still considers other items to be subjects, especially under Auto. It would really be silly for the camera to think a moving beach ball or cargo descending with a parachute wasn't a subject because it couldn't be pigeonholed into one of those three categories.

Well yes and no.
Let me ask you: in canon cameras before R5Mk2 (so even R5 or R6Mk2 or even old reflex) does evaluative, in considering the whole scene, have a bias more toward focus point?

I think the 1D series was the only one that had AF-linked metering. I never had one so I don't know if it specifically involved the evaluative metering setting.

 

[thegios]

The goal was to establish if a thing that isn't a person, animal, or vehicle is a subject for the purposes of detection. You hypothesized that it wasn't but this indicates that it is a subject. To me, it sounds like "Subject to detect" allows you to optimize detection for specific subjects but still considers other items to be subjects, especially under Auto. It would really be silly for the camera to think a moving beach ball or cargo descending with a parachute wasn't a subject because it couldn't be pigeonholed into one of those three categories.

I agree but we don't really know how Canon defines a Subject. I may be too picky but being an engineer and a writer, I tend to be very specific in words definition

I think the 1D series was the only one that had AF-linked metering. I never had one so I don't know if it specifically involved the evaluative metering setting.

1D had SPOT METERING linked to focus point, but common wisdom is that all former canon cameras in SPOT use center of screen, regardless of where focus point is, while in EVALUATIVE the camera uses the whole screen with a bias toward the focus point. This is proven by the following AE Lock specifications:

So, let me ask again: if all canon cameras in evaluative weights more the focus point, what does "Detect priority AE while AF" does?

Let me try to give my interpretation:

1- all canon cameras (besides 1D) in spot take exposure at center (1D can link exposure to focus point)
2- all canon cameras in evaluative take exposure from whole scene weighing more the focus point
3- only on R5Mk2 you can disable behaviours at point 2 by making "Detect priority AE while AF" = off, thus forcing camera in evaluative to force exposure at the center instead of at focus point.

Do you agree?

 

[AntonLargiader]

2 - Canon's descriptions don't include that EM is weighted to the focus points, but some independently written articles do. I've never dug into it.