Birds Frustrations!!

Don Bauer · Jul 18, 2021

I was shooting concerts, mostly with point and shoot cameras. Light was sometimes an issue but bigger shows had better light. Distance could be an issue but if I was willing to spend the money decent seats made all the difference. Then the pandemic hit. I wasn't going to concerts and I found myself going to the lake every day. I started taking bird photos. I'd been taking terrible bird photos for decades but that wasn't my main focus so I didn't much care. I found myself wanting better bird photos. I was shooting an 80d and bought a 400mm lens. Then I bought a 600mm lens. Then I bought an R5! a 100-500mm and the 800mm f11. I'm reading books on photography and learning some but I've had a camera in manual for decades, I have a pretty basic understanding. I'm still shooting bad pictures of birds. The light sucks so the f11 is worthless. I can't get anywhere near these animals so I crop just so you can see the birds. On one hand, I'm having a great time going and seeing the birds and lakes and talking to folks who are out and about. The other hans is getting home, thinking I probably have some pretty good stuff and finding quality like these herons!

bobhowdy · Jul 19, 2021

First of ..... WELCOME to the frustrating and expensive world of bird photography!
Now to your post ...... I am not a fan of the new RF600mm or the RF800mm lenses. They are Canon's idea on how to get folks into inexpensive long lenses. The f/11 aperture just does not work for me. My daily bird "kit" is the R5 camera body and the new RF100-500mm lens. I also have a version II Canon 500mm f/4 prime lens for the days when the light is really really bad. There are lots of good camera and lens combinations for bird photography
My suggestions
- Shoot often and a lot .... backyard birds will as subjects work too
- Shoot on a tripod or good monopod when you can .... but you will find yourself being in handheld situations a lot as well
- Shoot in manual or shutter priority .... keep your shutter speed up as high as the light will allow
- When shooting handheld lock you elbows into your ribs or your sides .... makes things "sturdier"
-Do not let the camera and lens wander out in front of you .... if you have to move your eye forward to the viewfinder your arms are not tight against your body
- Do not get caught with "Buck Fever" ...... in other words do not throw your camera up and press the shutter "praying and spraying"
- Find a location to shoot gulls or other slow flying birds with regularity .... a beach, a lake, some shopping center parking lots and most all landfills have Gull populations. Be patient and learn how to lock focus on the birds head / eye .... Be smooth / Shooting birds in flight is rhythmical ..... think about panning when photographing a fast moving car going by

Message me (if you want) or ask questions here and I will try to help

Don Bauer · Jul 19, 2021

bobhowdy said:
First of ..... WELCOME to the frustrating and expensive world of bird photography!
Now to your post ...... I am not a fan of the new RF600mm or the RF800mm lenses. They are Canon's idea on how to get folks into inexpensive long lenses. The f/11 aperture just does not work for me. My daily bird "kit" is the R5 camera body and the new RF100-500mm lens. I also have a version II Canon 500mm f/4 prime lens for the days when the light is really really bad. There are lots of good camera and lens combinations for bird photography
My suggestions
- Shoot often and a lot .... backyard birds will as subjects work too
- Shoot on a tripod or good monopod when you can .... but you will find yourself being in handheld situations a lot as well
- Shoot in manual or shutter priority .... keep your shutter speed up as high as the light will allow
- When shooting handheld lock you elbows into your ribs or your sides .... makes things "sturdier"
-Do not let the camera and lens wander out in front of you .... if you have to move your eye forward to the viewfinder your arms are not tight against your body
- Do not get caught with "Buck Fever" ...... in other words do not throw your camera up and press the shutter "praying and spraying"
- Find a location to shoot gulls or other slow flying birds with regularity .... a beach, a lake, some shopping center parking lots and most all landfills have Gull populations. Be patient and learn how to lock focus on the birds head / eye .... Be smooth / Shooting birds in flight is rhythmical ..... think about panning when photographing a fast moving car going by

Message me (if you want) or ask questions here and I will try to help

Hi Bob
Thanks for the great reply! I can use all the help I can get. I’ve bought a couple of books that are helpful. First one told me to buy a $12,000 lens in an early chapter so I closed it and moved on. I love my 100-500 mm 5.6-7ish lens. The 800f11 has its uses but is so light dependent. Then there’s the bird or deer in close and I have that lens on!
I have a lake in my back yard. It gets heron, king fishers the occasional duck and even cormorant.
I take a lot of photos hundreds a day on average. I probably should shoot less and think more.
I’ve been in manual for years and try to keep that shutter speed up
I’ve never shot shutter priority I’ll try that. Trying different things has been helpful. Some of the longer shutter speeds mentioned in comments I see here. I’m reading Understanding Exposure. Really enjoy this one but he’s shooting still life stuff mostly so far
Thanks again!
I’m envious of the 500 f4, someday! I have a couple 1.8 lenses for in bars. The quality of these big glass lenses is amazing!

Tim Mayo · Aug 2, 2021

Hey Don, that looks like a nice place to spend some time! If the light isn't good then you will struggle with f/11, I'd probably stick with the 100-500 then. Looking at your shutter speeds, the herons in flight are at 1/640 so you might get some motion blur here unless you are panning really smoothly, a safer shutter speed would be 1/1600 and up, of course your ISO will shoot up in these conditions. The other shots look to be at 1/250 which is again pretty slow for anything that's moving. Herons are always tricky to expose for, especially when the sun is shining. If you are using any of the auto settings you'll probably want to under expose by a stop at least. You might also want to experiment with the metering options if you are using any auto modes, such as center-weighted average, spot can be tricky especially if they are in flight.

Grahamk · Aug 2, 2021

Hi Don, Your title sums up birds in flight in a nutshell. I've been trying to get some decent images of the red kites that fly in our area of the UK for some time - most are pretty rubbish. I find that decent sunlight is needed to get the best detail and because I'm shooting the underneath of the birds then 1.5-2 stops over is needed. Also, in order to get a large enough subject in the viewfinder, the birds have to be quite low and hence are difficult to track - the tracking ability of the R6 is a big help here compared to my previous DSLRs. Some of my better recent examples, taken using an R6 with an EF 100-400 mk 11, are below. Not sure if the exif data will be picked up but whilst details will vary slightly between images, approximate data are ISO 800-1000, 1/2000, f5.6, +1 2/3 or +2, evaluative metering. Good luck - perseverance pays off!

Don Bauer · Aug 9, 2021

Grahamk said:
Hi Don, Your title sums up birds in flight in a nutshell. I've been trying to get some decent images of the red kites that fly in our area of the UK for some time - most are pretty rubbish. I find that decent sunlight is needed to get the best detail and because I'm shooting the underneath of the birds then 1.5-2 stops over is needed. Also, in order to get a large enough subject in the viewfinder, the birds have to be quite low and hence are difficult to track - the tracking ability of the R6 is a big help here compared to my previous DSLRs. Some of my better recent examples, taken using an R6 with an EF 100-400 mk 11, are below. Not sure if the exif data will be picked up but whilst details will vary slightly between images, approximate data are ISO 800-1000, 1/2000, f5.6, +1 2/3 or +2, evaluative metering. Good luck - perseverance pays off!

Man, these are great! Indeed so many factors need to come together. Light and proximity are I think the answer. Thanks for sharing your beautiful red kites. I have mississippi kites where I live, suburb an Missouri USA

Don Bauer · Aug 9, 2021

Timothy Mayo said:
Hey Don, that looks like a nice place to spend some time! If the light isn't good then you will struggle with f/11, I'd probably stick with the 100-500 then. Looking at your shutter speeds, the herons in flight are at 1/640 so you might get some motion blur here unless you are panning really smoothly, a safer shutter speed would be 1/1600 and up, of course your ISO will shoot up in these conditions. The other shots look to be at 1/250 which is again pretty slow for anything that's moving. Herons are always tricky to expose for, especially when the sun is shining. If you are using any of the auto settings you'll probably want to under expose by a stop at least. You might also want to experiment with the metering options if you are using any auto modes, such as center-weighted average, spot can be tricky especially if they are in flight.

Hey Timothy. Thanks for your input. I mostly shoot the 100-5oo because bright sun seems to be a rarity. I go out mostly at sunrise when birds are more active. My R5 reaches some 50,000 ISO but I'm told to keep it to 1600! Indeed it get grainy if I go much over, probably because most of my bird pics get cropped. I keep reminding myself that the experience of finding cool birds in a wonderful setting makes it worth while. I know nothing about metering modes or the auto modes you mention. I need to step back from takin g photos and spend the time learning all the things my amazing camera will do. I shoot manual adjusting my exposure triangle, not quickly enough!

Grahamk · Aug 12, 2021

Don Bauer said:
Man, these are great! Indeed so many factors need to come together. Light and proximity are I think the answer. Thanks for sharing your beautiful red kites. I have mississippi kites where I live, suburb an Missouri USA

Glad you like them. One of the reasons I try and shoot the birds flying low is to minimise the deterioration in image quality caused by the need to crop - but, as I noted before, this makes tracking them more difficult.

RedCobra · Oct 10, 2021

Don Bauer said:
Hi Bob
Thanks for the great reply! I can use all the help I can get. I’ve bought a couple of books that are helpful. First one told me to buy a $12,000 lens in an early chapter so I closed it and moved on. I love my 100-500 mm 5.6-7ish lens. The 800f11 has its uses but is so light dependent. Then there’s the bird or deer in close and I have that lens on!
I have a lake in my back yard. It gets heron, king fishers the occasional duck and even cormorant.
I take a lot of photos hundreds a day on average. I probably should shoot less and think more.
I’ve been in manual for years and try to keep that shutter speed up
I’ve never shot shutter priority I’ll try that. Trying different things has been helpful. Some of the longer shutter speeds mentioned in comments I see here. I’m reading Understanding Exposure. Really enjoy this one but he’s shooting still life stuff mostly so far
Thanks again!
I’m envious of the 500 f4, someday! I have a couple 1.8 lenses for in bars. The quality of these big glass lenses is amazing!

I shoot eagles at Conowingo Dam and am always in Tv at 1/2000. I let the Aperture and ISO float, only going into manual if there is a strong backlight situation. I have my M-fn button programmed to the custom modes where, C1 is 1.6x crop, C2 is Av (FF) and C3 is manual FF. I can then cycle between Tv, 1.6, Av, and Man with the push of a button. I did shoot with a monopod, but it made tracking the flyers a challenge, (try tracking a flying eagle from in front to overhead and behind with a monopod without tripping. LOL) and with IS and IBIS found I didn't need the monopod.

GeraldHerd · Oct 11, 2021

I’m seeing focus and noise issues, both of which may be because of the distance you’re shooting at. When I shoot wading or flying birds, the bird has to occupy at least 1000 pixels x 1000 pixels (R6) in the original, uncropped frame to look good when posted. That is probably a max range of 25 to 50 yards for a great egret. My typical R6 settings are 1/1000-1/2000th second, wide open aperture, auto ISO. That often results in an ISO 4000-6000, but noise reduction via topaz denoise is a more manageable problem than blur.

Use Canon’s DPP software to see what autofocus points were active at exposure. If you’re not seeing a red square over the bird’s eye, you may need to make changes in the AF modes and dynamics.

Get closer. If the problem is the birds leave when you approach, try rigging a blind and sit quietly until they come back. If you can’t get closer, look for a different venue Where you can. I’ve found state parks and boat docks to be good (a chance for food and lots of non-threatening people).

Look on youtube for some videos by Art Morris on Fort Desoto bird photography. Those will address some technique issues like quality of light, sun angle, etc.

Good luck And hang in there.

RedCobra · Oct 11, 2021

This post is for the OP that thought the RF 100-500 wasn't sharp. Not birds, but......
This was at 500mm from my front porch. R5+RF 100-500 ISO 800 200% crop. Some PS and Topaz. Original is enclosed for scale. Oh... and handheld.

Birds Frustrations!!

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