Birds Back button focus? I don't understand the full benefit.

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RichMan

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Richard Manley
Hello all! I'm new here, and I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right spot. Please forgive me if I'm in the wrong place. However, this question is specifically in relation to bird photography.

The Canon R5 is my first "real" camera with continuous auto focus, and haven't yet seen the benefit of back button focus. I can see how it was important with continuous spot auto focus, where you would press the BBF to focus and then recompose the image, but with animal eye AF you can focus and recompose at the same time. I'm not saying it doesn't have benefits, I'm saying as a newbie starting out on an R5 I don't understand the benefits. I'm hoping someone can provide some insight to help me out.

I just learned a couple of days ago that you can have two focus buttons, one for eye AF and a different one for spot AF. I can see the benefits in that, but I haven't tried it yet. I mean "see the bird, shoot the bird" is one thing, but "see the bird, check exposure, make sure shutter speed is good, get focus, shoot the bird" is many times overwhelming. I'm hesitant in adding another button into the mix. :)

Anyway, any input or personal experience is appreciated. Thanks!
 
Until I bought the R5 I could see no benefit to me in BB focus but now I'm a convert. I have the shutter button on spot focus, the rear button on eye detect. I find this to be ideal for me as I don't have to move my thumb to another assigned button. Once I have identifies my target using the half pressed shutter button I let the back button do the tracking as I take the shots. aperture, shutter speed and ISO are all on the dials and shutter speed it the one I use the most to adjust exposure on the fly as my 100-500 plus 1.4 TC doesn't give much room for manoeuvre on aperture. The R5 produces excellent IQ so I'm often on ISO 3200 now.
 
When I shot Nikon I used BBF all the time. With the R5 the ability to choose an alternate focus method between front and rear buttons is a game changer for me as a wildlife photographer. Eye detect is great when you need it, but crap for birds in flight. Now I can set my focus mode for a zone focus to grab something in the sky and hit the back button for a stationary target. Makes for a powerful arrangement.
 
Just shows what suits one person might not anther. The R5 has so many potential combinations to choose but with a moving subject I want to use all the available AF points to track it across all the screen as keeping it in the zone is often beyond me.
 
BBF is good for birds. Say, you are tracking an eagle (with shutter button half pressed) and the eagle flies behind a tree and comes out the other side. Every time you press the shutter, the camera will refocus. The camera will focus on the tree and have to refocus when the bird emerges. Hit and miss. With BBF, as it approaches the tree, release the AF button, and the camera retains the focus distance and when the bird comes out the other side is still in focus (and you can hit the BB again,) Meanwhile you can fire off 4 or 5 shots without focus changing.

I have my R5 set up for Triple BBF. AF button= Animal eye focus, Asterisk button= single point spot focus. AE button= zone focus.
 
Dave Williams said:
Until I bought the R5 I could see no benefit to me in BB focus but now I'm a convert. I have the shutter button on spot focus, the rear button on eye detect. I find this to be ideal for me as I don't have to move my thumb to another assigned button. Once I have identifies my target using the half pressed shutter button I let the back button do the tracking as I take the shots. aperture, shutter speed and ISO are all on the dials and shutter speed it the one I use the most to adjust exposure on the fly as my 100-500 plus 1.4 TC doesn't give much room for manoeuvre on aperture. The R5 produces excellent IQ so I'm often on ISO 3200 now.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Question: when you have the back button pressed for eye detection and then press the shutter button to take the pic, now having both focus buttons pressed, which focus type does the camera use?
 
RichMan said:
Thanks. Question: when you have the back button pressed for eye detection and then press the shutter button to take the pic, now having both focus buttons pressed, which focus type does the camera use?
Click to expand...
The shutter button does not focus in this case. It only meters. This is set in the customize buttons menu. When using BBF the shutter button only meters and fires the shutter. does not activate the AF system.
 
Jake Shoots Birds said:
When I shot Nikon I used BBF all the time. With the R5 the ability to choose an alternate focus method between front and rear buttons is a game changer for me as a wildlife photographer. Eye detect is great when you need it, but crap for birds in flight. Now I can set my focus mode for a zone focus to grab something in the sky and hit the back button for a stationary target. Makes for a powerful arrangement.
Click to expand...
Interesting setup, thanks for the description. Could you tell me your settings? Do you have Zone set to the shutter button and BB set for eye detect? I use eye detect on the shutter button 90% of the time. I find that it works good with birds in flight except with a busy back ground. Do you think the Zone works better?
 
RichMan said:
Thanks. Question: when you have the back button pressed for eye detection and then press the shutter button to take the pic, now having both focus buttons pressed, which focus type does the camera use?
Click to expand...
The back button overrides the shutter button, take your thumb off and it reverts to the single point that you have set up to. You need orange menu 3, customise buttons. Not everyone is aware that you can do this!
 
RedCobra said:
BBF is good for birds. Say, you are tracking an eagle (with shutter button half pressed) and the eagle flies behind a tree and comes out the other side. Every time you press the shutter, the camera will refocus. The camera will focus on the tree and have to refocus when the bird emerges. Hit and miss. With BBF, as it approaches the tree, release the AF button, and the camera retains the focus distance and when the bird comes out the other side is still in focus (and you can hit the BB again,) Meanwhile you can fire off 4 or 5 shots without focus changing.

I have my R5 set up for Triple BBF. AF button= Animal eye focus, Asterisk button= single point spot focus. AE button= zone focus.
Click to expand...
That sound like it could be a good setup for me to test out. If it's not to much trouble, could you let me know your settings? Is there anything tricky that you need to know to set those up? I think I remember a video about not being able to set AF=eye detect and *=spot, I think the YouTuber had to set it up in the reverse order (I could be mistaken).
Here is an off topic question: do you shoot in Manual, and if so do you use Auto ISO most of the time? I don't, but when things are moving quick I don't have the experience to change exposure settings fast enough.

Thanks much!
 
RichMan said:
That sound like it could be a good setup for me to test out. If it's not to much trouble, could you let me know your settings? Is there anything tricky that you need to know to set those up? I think I remember a video about not being able to set AF=eye detect and *=spot, I think the YouTuber had to set it up in the reverse order (I could be mistaken).
Here is an off topic question: do you shoot in Manual, and if so do you use Auto ISO most of the time? I don't, but when things are moving quick I don't have the experience to change exposure settings fast enough.

Thanks much!
Click to expand...
If you want to try my way. Go to purple Menu 1. Choose single point for AF method, subject to detect animals and disable continuous AF ( to save battery power. Then proceed as I directed above to Orange menu. Choose half metering and start AF for the shutter button, then for AF-on choose eye detection AF.
I use manual settings for aperture,S/s and ISO.
 
RichMan said:
Interesting setup, thanks for the description. Could you tell me your settings? Do you have Zone set to the shutter button and BB set for eye detect? I use eye detect on the shutter button 90% of the time. I find that it works good with birds in flight except with a busy back ground. Do you think the Zone works better?
Click to expand...
No no.... The shutter button does no AF at all. Only metering start and shutter activation. All focusing is done with the Back Button.
AF on = Animal eye focus
Asterisk = Spot focus
AE button = zone focus.

The whole purpose of Back button focus is to take the focus activation OFF the shutter button.
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RichMan said:
Interesting setup, thanks for the description. Could you tell me your settings? Do you have Zone set to the shutter button and BB set for eye detect? I use eye detect on the shutter button 90% of the time. I find that it works good with birds in flight except with a busy back ground. Do you think the Zone works better?
Click to expand...
The opposite - front for zone, bb for eye detect. Just works better for me head-wise. Zone is much better to grab a bird in the sky. I used to use the control wheel to change from eye detect to zone quickly but then heard of this and now use the control wheel to select what I want for the front button which varies between single point, expanded single and zone
 
Jake Shoots Birds said:
The opposite - front for zone, bb for eye detect. Just works better for me head-wise. Zone is much better to grab a bird in the sky. I used to use the control wheel to change from eye detect to zone quickly but then heard of this and now use the control wheel to select what I want for the front button which varies between single point, expanded single and zone
Click to expand...
Another interpretation of my set up , must admit I don't use the control ring at all.Maybe I need to take another look at it.
 
The first video she's using a 1D and things have changed! Again it's about personal preference. I find the back buttons a bit fiddly finding the right one so Have mine all set to the same function..eye detect. Whereas with the DSLR's I have always owned there was no eye detect, now I use the centre single AF point to hit the subject then use the eye detect to keep on the subject as I recompose the shot or simple try to keep the subject in the frame if it's moving. No need to turn the AF off at all most of the time.
RedCobra said:
No no.... The shutter button does no AF at all. Only metering start and shutter activation. All focusing is done with the Back Button.
AF on = Animal eye focus
Asterisk = Spot focus
AE button = zone focus.

The whole purpose of Back button focus is to take the focus activation OFF the shutter button.
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Click to expand...
 
Dave Williams said:
Until I bought the R5 I could see no benefit to me in BB focus but now I'm a convert. I have the shutter button on spot focus, the rear button on eye detect. I find this to be ideal for me as I don't have to move my thumb to another assigned button. Once I have identifies my target using the half pressed shutter button I let the back button do the tracking as I take the shots. aperture, shutter speed and ISO are all on the dials and shutter speed it the one I use the most to adjust exposure on the fly as my 100-500 plus 1.4 TC doesn't give much room for manoeuvre on aperture. The R5 produces excellent IQ so I'm often on ISO 3200 now.
Click to expand...
 
Dave, can you please post a iphone photo of your Customize Buttons panel so I can see which is the icon that should be next to the AF-ON in order to Focus the subject with that Back Button?
Dave Williams said:
Until I bought the R5 I could see no benefit to me in BB focus but now I'm a convert. I have the shutter button on spot focus, the rear button on eye detect. I find this to be ideal for me as I don't have to move my thumb to another assigned button. Once I have identifies my target using the half pressed shutter button I let the back button do the tracking as I take the shots. aperture, shutter speed and ISO are all on the dials and shutter speed it the one I use the most to adjust exposure on the fly as my 100-500 plus 1.4 TC doesn't give much room for manoeuvre on aperture. The R5 produces excellent IQ so I'm often on ISO 3200 now.
Click to expand...

button?
 

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RedCobra said:
The shutter button does not focus in this case. It only meters. This is set in the customize buttons menu. When using BBF the shutter button only meters and fires the shutter. does not activate the AF system.
Click to expand...
So WHICH IS THE ICON THAT SHOULD BE NEXT TO THE AF-ON button, in order to activate fht AF system and use the BACK BUTTON FOCUS?
 
I think it's this one, EyeDetect.
And he had his * set to "register/recall shooting function" I believe.

eyedetect.jpg
 
For birds in general, including birds-in-flight, I have been usiing the guidance in the video below for some time. It works well for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFZ0J27zSI4
The basic idea is to use 3 back buttons, each operated with the thumb for different focus functions. The shutter button is set to "Metering Start" (only) in "Customize Buttons".

The 3 back buttons as labeled in the R5 menu are:
- AF-On
- AE Lock (*)
- AF Point Button

I have set these in "Customize Buttons" for the following functionality:
- AF-On: Spot AF
- AE Lock: Eye Detect AF
- AF Point Button: Zone AF
My order for these works better for me and is slightly different than that suggested in the video.

Useage comments:

1) If a stationary bird is too distant for Eye Detect AF, then I will generally use Spot AF.
2) I find that the Zone AF button generally works well for BIF, and sometimes better than either Spot AF or Eye Detect AF on birds partially burried in brush.
 
Copterdoc said:
I believe that is why it is being requested as an option so you can choose what works for you.
Click to expand...

Kwazy said:
I think it's this one, EyeDetect.
And he had his * set to "register/recall shooting function" I believe.

View attachment 10434
Click to expand...
That's the one but I have it assigned to AF-on button as well as that one. Sorry for the delay in replying I have been out of contact in Kruger National Park. The eye af is great with birds but not so clever with all animals it seems from the last two weeks experience however, it's a huge leap forward.
If you just have the shutter button assigned to single spot and the back AF-on, (and the other next to it too ) to eye detect it is far less complicated than having to fumble for the right back button in my opinion, especially the buttons are small and close together.
 
Personally, I find the flexibility and utility of having 3 AF methods available by quickly sliding my thumb across the 3 buttons works for me. It is very fast to find what is working best in any situation. It probably took only one or two times out shooting to remember which button is for each function.
 

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