Canon R5 R5 Focusing Issues (primarily with bald eagles)

[NancyMac]

Hi All,

I'm using an R5 with a 100-500mm lens. I feel like my lens is slow with autofocus tracking of birds in flight.

I'm using manual settings w/ my shutter speed at 1:3200 or maybe a little less, aperture 7.1,-8.0, and iso as needed.
Settings to animal, SERVO, high speed continuous exposure +, and using the back button focus button.

Should the focus be set to Expand Auto Focus Around or the face focus plus tracking??
Do I need to adjust the sensitivity AF pt select away from zero (purple screen) or do I need to change something in initial servo AF pt??

I'm super frustrated. I never had any issues with my 7D.
I feel like I'm just missing a setting or something within my camera???
Also, I have IS off, because a lot of my pics are taking from a boat.

I am mostly shooting wildlife...
Thank you very much for your assistance. I used to be 9/10 with the only issue being my exposure (under), but now I can see my adjusts as I tweak things in camera, and my issue is solely the focusing...

Nancy

 

[NancyMac]

My guess is that's because IS is turned off with the physical switch on your lens, since as you said, it didn't work out well in your situation.
If it's off on the lens, it's off in the camera as well, and the setting will be hidden. I think. Don't have the camera with me right now to double check.

good thought!! I changed the IS to on and it still doesn't show up on Camera (red) tab 7....annoying.

 

[Kwazy]

IS to on and it still doesn't show up on Camera

Ok, I should've known this since this is kinda what brought me to this forum as well.

The manual on page 238* reads:
"[IS mode] and [Still photo IS] are not displayed when an IS-equipped lens is attached"

In other words, the only thing you have to worry about is the physical switch on the lens.
Hope this helps.

*R6 manual. R5 manual might have it on a different page.

 

[Dave Williams]

Hi Jake,
Per group suggestion I have shutter set to 1 point AF (seems like a very small spot to be lucky enough to line up with a breaching whale or fast flying bird) and then the back focus to eyeAF (2nd row - 4th from the left)

With choosing one point from my shutter tho it disables eye detection in AF section 1.

Ugh!!

It's meant to be just that a single point when you use the shutter button You have to press the AF-on button to get eye detect. You don't have to press the shutter button too unless you want to take a shot. The shutter button doesn't over ride the back button which continues to track.

The single point isn't effective on it's own unless you get it on the eye because it can't move unless you move it....... or use a bigger focus point zone the the AF point moves as the camera tells it.


Try both and see how it works...find a dog or cat to practice on...or even a stuffed toy. Works for me!

Hi. I’m replying on my cell so can’t see where you wrote to turn IS on in my camera
On red settings (camera) section 7 there isn’t an IS option. The first option is to enable Tocuh Shutter. IS should be the first option. It’s not there. ??

It's automatically on in camera if you have an IS lens attached. If you attach a non IS lens, the option to turn it on or off appears. You always have the option to turn the IS off on the lens itself but I don't.

 

[NancyMac]

good thought!! I changed the IS to on and it still doesn't show up on Camera (red) tab 7....annoying.

Ok, thanks so much.
Now ONE last question!! Hahaha!!

When I have face + tracking detected I can not control anything with my toggle switch. I like to be able to toggle based on what I'd like to focus on....Perhaps the animals face isn't showing, but I like the pattern of it's feathers on it's tail....I have nothing to toggle....it's just randomly searching where it wants. How do I lock it onto something else??

 

[NancyMac]

The shutter is set to half press metering and AF start.
Back button is set for face plus tracking. I'd like some control and be able to toggle/adjust focal point....?????

 

[Kwazy]

..it's just randomly searching where it wants. How do I lock it onto something else??

Yep, that's why Dave suggested having Spot-AF on shutter release, and AF+EyeDetect on AF-On button.
This way you can try the AF-On to see if the camera auto-detects the animal, and if it doesn't then you can use the shutter release to force focus on the plumage. But this is tricky if the target is moving fast. I would suggest tapping it on the screen to point out what you want to focus on if it's not auto-detected.

I'm not sure what you mean by "toggle." But I think maybe you mean "shutter release."
If you're trying to have a convenient way to switch between AF modes, one way to do that is to set your lens' control ring to that purpose.

 

[NancyMac]

Yep, that's why Dave suggested having Spot-AF on shutter release, and AF+EyeDetect on AF-On button.
This way you can try the AF-On to see if the camera auto-detects the animal, and if it doesn't then you can use the shutter release to force focus on the plumage. But this is tricky if the target is moving fast. I would suggest tapping it on the screen to point out what you want to focus on if it's not auto-detected.

I'm not sure what you mean by "toggle." But I think maybe you mean "shutter release."

The joy stick. I work with that often.

 

[Kwazy]

The joy stick. I work with that often.

Ah. Try tapping the screen instead. It's much easier and faster.

 

[NancyMac]

Ah. Try tapping the screen instead. It's much easier and faster.

My screen is closed though cause I’m viewing through viewfinder. I have 2 seconds to get it right. If I take my eye off the subject to look at my screen I’ll lose my subject.

 

[Kwazy]

What if you use the screen instead of the viewfinder in general? I personally find the viewfinder very inconvenient. I do realize that's a leftover habit from using old-style SLRs. R5 is kinda a game-changer. You may want to try and change how you operate with it to get more out of it.

 

[NancyMac]

My screen is closed though cause I’m viewing through viewfinder. I have 2 seconds to get it right. If I take my eye off the subject to look at my screen I’ll lose my

 

[NancyMac]

I’m not sure about that. I like to filter out all outside light and I tend to shoot on the darker side. Sigh.

 

[Kwazy]

I’m not sure about that. I like to filter out all outside light and I tend to shoot on the darker side. Sigh.

Hm. Not sure there's a good way to help the camera find what you'd like to track without using the screen. The joystick can be used to switch between trackable objects, but they have to have been detected in the first place for that to work.

I guess you could try using the AF-on for AF+EyeDetect and Shutter Release for Spot-AF, and hope that you can keep the eagle in the square while the servo does its thing. I find that rather difficult though.

Alternatively, you could also set the "initial AF point" to be center instead of "auto" as has been suggested, but in this case it won't auto detect anything unless it's in the center I think. Curious if in this case AF-On button would override the center and try to detect eyes everywhere. that could be a work-around.

 

[NancyMac]

Hi All,

I went out today to shoot some heron. I was approximately 40 yards away and standing on a dock that moved a bit with activity from others using it, or the tide. All manual pics... No editing. I am shooting handheld ... I forgot to mention that.

I had LOTS of blurry pics again. I began with using the Face + Tracking mode. This seemed to be working only about 10% of the time.... It really seemed to struggle with finding the heron's eye and then staying on it. The bird wasn't moving fast, but just pecking around in the water, etc. I noticed it'd focus on the neck, the water below (it REALLY struggled in the calm flat water initially)...

The 1 point autofocus was too small to keep toggling around with my joystick. It seemed like too far away of target to match up with such a small focal spot.

The Expand AF area: Around setting felt more user friendly but I'm not certain it did as good of job.

These really are NOT that great at all.... I feel like I'm still missing a setting, and something to make it easier to track.

The heron in flight isn't great, but my shutter was only at 1/1200....should have been faster...The sequence isn't great, not terrible, but not great.

I used the following -

AF - tab 1 = SERVO AF, AF Face + Tracking, Animals, Enable Eye, Disable Continous AF
Auto SERVO AF vs. any specific "case"
Switching tracked subjects at 1 (factory)
Orientation linked for AF point @ same for vert/horiz (factory)??
AF Tab 5 = initial servo AF pt for face plus tracking at AUTO??

Custom Button
Shutter button half press to metering and AF start
AF Back button focusing on AF Point selection... Is this supposed to be on EYE AF?? (I may have selected the wrong option..)
If AF Back button focusing is on EYE AF, then what is the * supposed to be set to?

IS was on for some, others not. I felt like it was really bouncing around again.... I don't know. Maybe this isn't the right set up for me.... You all rave about it, but I'm just not having great success with it.

Thanks for your feedback... I should post pics of the focal points of the sequences so you can see how "off" the face plus tracking was....

Nancy

 

[Kwazy]

I went out today to shoot some heron.

Your birds look perfectly in focus. I can tell by the ground/water under them that they are in the focal plane. But if you think they're off, do post the ones with focus spots on.

Dare I say that your shutter speed is too slow? The weather looks overcast, you're shooting with a big lens. You need to be in the 1/400th+ 1/1000th+ range I think at least, but I've never shot with that lens.

Edit: I looked again, and the splashes look frozen - so I guess you're pretty fast. Probably need to be faster. The ISO will have to take the brunt and quality will suffer. Shooting in the rain isn't great I guess? Perhaps it's the grain due to very high ISO that's giving it the blurry look? It's hard to tell because you edited out the metadata, so exposure settings are hidden.

I tried using Jake's exact setting today, and although the birds didn't get autodetected every time, when they did - it worked well. Mind you, it was a sunny day here and I was able to shoot with 1/2500 shutter. Detection depends on the background and probably other factors, but it works. This is the first time I tried photographing birds, and I'd say they were getting detected 70% right away while in flight.

 

[NancyMac]

Hi,

All settings are aperture 7.1 with shutter speed varying between 1/800 to 1/1200, and several at 1/2000.
These are 9 out of 400 that are "semi clear."
I did take into account that some of the fuzziness of yesterday's pics were due to higher ISO's, plus wetness in the air, so I decreased the ISO today. It is challenging with darker conditions, but I've been shooting up here for 22 years and never had a focusing issue.
The autofocusing facial tracking was all over the place. The heron was grey in grey conditions on grey water. They were also probably further away than the seagulls too??

What setting do you have for this? AF Tab 5 = initial servo AF pt for face plus tracking at AUTO??

 

[NancyMac]

I have shutter button set to standard...half press and metering and AF start
AF Purple Menu Page 1 The camera is set up to single point . Servo AF.Animals. Continuous AF is disabled
AF Purple Menu Page 5 Initial Servo Pt for eye detect is single point.
Red Menu Customise buttons I select no change on the shutter button as described previously. For AF-on I choose eye detect, it's on the second row, 4th along.
and that's it. If I want to pinpoint the target then I use the shutter button. If I want the camera to lock on an eye I use the back button and keeping my thumb pressed on it, fire the shutter. The result is so easy that it becomes a bit boring. You can't expect the camera to work miracles but if the subject is large enough it will lock on an eye and stay on it. If it can't find the eye which it sometimes can't if there is no light on it it might jump to the brightest part. If the subject is fairly distant the whole bird might be locked on but not necessarily the eye.
The biggest problem area is water, especially flat calm water because then if the subject isn't large the camera will be attracted to the eye like reflection of the water but won't be able to lock on it.

I always shoot manual so you can change at a whim the shutter speed , aperture and ISO. If you have enough depth of field it doesn't matter as much if the focus isn't on the eye but somewhere near by.


The one thing that is certain though is that the R5 is indeed an incredible bit of electronics which, it seems to me, has far more options to choose than I'll ever need and I even wonder if some of them are useful to anyone. There is no right way or wrong way, just a choice of how to use it. I'm very simple in my needs and rather old fashioned. I often forget about using the touch screen to move the focus points and instead use the joystick but that was only innovated a few years ago.
I recently spent a week on a little island off Scotland . Not long ago I was delighted to come home with a handful of sharp flight shots. This time I was taking so many I was deleting hundreds. 20fps in electronic can be overkill but in each sequence there is usually a standout pose and the rest, although sharp either get deleted or never used.I attach some for perusal! I'm not an awesome photographer but I have an awesome camera.

PS I never turn IS off, in fact there's a specific mode for a rocking boat.

I'm going to out on the boat tomorrow and I'm going to try your settings. I tried the face plus tracking setting today and it was a disaster. Plus I like to use the toggle/joystick to lock in on something. Can you explain this part for me? Where is this on the red menu? I may have it correctly, but just want to doublecheck. Thank you!

"Red Menu Customise buttons I select no change on the shutter button as described previously"
Is that the half press and metering AF start that we already addressed? Where is that located in the red setting section? Thanks!

 

[Kwazy]

The heron was grey in grey conditions on grey water.

I can see how auto focus would have trouble with this.

What setting do you have for this? AF Tab 5 = initial servo AF pt for face plus tracking at AUTO??

Yes, auto.

It goes all over the place when there isn't a clear target for it. Not surprising in poor weather.

Hope you have better luck with the joystick. I don't know how to use that!

 

[Dave Williams]

The only button you need to change to use my method is the AF-on button to eye detect.

Leave the shutter button as it was at default so it both meters and af's as well as initiating the shots when fully depressed.

Your tiny AF point isn't the fine point is it? I use the next one which is bigger. This point is used to focus on static subjects or to put you in the general area. You are not likely to use it for moving subjects. If the subject is reasonably close press the AF-on button and it should lock on to the subject. You then just need to compose the shot as best you can depending on if it's moving and at what speed. Use your zoom to help.
If you follow my original instructions for my settings you should arrive at where I have suggested you try.

Using the screen to AF is fine if you are tripod mounted or have a lightweight lens perhaps but totally impossible with a big white hand held. Like you I use the viewfinder not because it's old fashioned but for many practical reasons including battery saving and the ability to see what the shot looks like when the light is reflecting off the screen. I find the reticulated screen excellent when tripod mounted and I use it for video .

 

[NancyMac]

Perfect Dave. Thank you.
Yes I realized I had the wrong focus point on. I was trying with the tiny one! Virtually impossible in my scenario.
I’ve set it up as instructed and feel like I’ve a chance. I’m accustomed to toggling the joystick and the AF eye is set!! (2nd row, fourth across!).

Off I go
Thanks!!
Mancy

 

[NancyMac]

The only button you need to change to use my method is the AF-on button to eye detect.

Leave the shutter button as it was at default so it both meters and af's as well as initiating the shots when fully depressed.

Your tiny AF point isn't the fine point is it? I use the next one which is bigger. This point is used to focus on static subjects or to put you in the general area. You are not likely to use it for moving subjects. If the subject is reasonably close press the AF-on button and it should lock on to the subject. You then just need to compose the shot as best you can depending on if it's moving and at what speed. Use your zoom to help.
If you follow my original instructions for my settings you should arrive at where I have suggested you try.

Using the screen to AF is fine if you are tripod mounted or have a lightweight lens perhaps but totally impossible with a big white hand held. Like you I use the viewfinder not because it's old fashioned but for many practical reasons including battery saving and the ability to see what the shot looks like when the light is reflecting off the screen. I find the reticulated screen excellent when tripod mounted and I use it for video .

Hi Dave,
I used the single point setting and had a little bit more success, however still happy with the images. I'll add one here for your reference.

Orca example 1-
Focal length - 500mm
Exposure 1/3200
F 7.1
ISO only 640
Not crisp at all.

Orca example 2-
Focal length - 500 mm
Exposure 1/2500
F 7.1
ISO only 400
Not crisp.... ugh

Orca example 3 -
Focal length - 428 mm
Exposure - 1/1250
F 7.1
ISO only 400
Tried to keep the ISO lower, with hopes of sharpening the image, didn't help much

Orca example 4 -
Focal length - 500mm
Exposure - 1/1250
F 7.1
ISO 400
What the heck is wrong with this camera? I would have nailed all of these pics in the past...

Other times it would nail the focus...
Focal - 324mm
Exposure - 1/1250
F 7.1
ISO 400

Orca with Pacific White Sided Dolphins
Sped up the shutter speed because the dolphins are so fast.
Focal only at 167mm
7.1, 1/2500, ISO 500
UGH

Not crisp...
Focal length only 186mm
7.1, 1/2000, ISO 500

Orca with boat - 500mm, 7.1, 1/2000, ISO 500

Male Orca dorsal with boat. Proof that ISO isn't causing the fuzziness.
Focal length - 400mm, 7.1, 1/2000, ISO 800
I'm happy with this image.

Image 5872 - This is why I need the joystick/toggle

Humpback at - 176mm, 8.0, 1/2500, ISO 1000

So you can see my focus is all over the place. I haven't gone through all of my pics yet, but with what I have gone through thus far, I have WAY more blurry images that what I've even posted. So blurry that it's as if a child took the pic.

Any suggestions? I still feel like a setting is off.

Thanks,
Nancy

 

[Dave Williams]

The images are not that bad in my opinion. The light is poor and there is little contrast and they are fairly tiny in the frame in some shots. What do the look like when cropped at 100%. The Humpback tail fin should look pretty good unless you have already cropped that shot.
When you say you have used single point do you mean you just used the shutter button?
For image 5872 I would have left my single point in the middle of the frame, pointed it over the fin then half pressed to get it in focus.I would have then pressed the Af-on button which would hopefully lock on to the subject whilst I recomposed the image. If the AF points didn't stick with the fin then I would have tried toggling down the single point over the fin to recompose as best I could.
Grey on grey and reflective water doesn't make for the best conditions, it's all about the light no matter what you are shooting. Have a go at some thing else, preferably with eyes too, and in decent light then see what the results are.