Aviation R6II shutter for airshow?

[esheato]

Hitting up the NAS Oceana (Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA) Naval Air Show in two weeks. Plan on taking the R6II and adapted 100-400. While there are some slow aircraft, as a USAF veteran, I’m attending for the jets and there will be plenty. I’ve found EFCS to be more than adequate for most of my portrait work and haven’t felt the need to switch it up….until now.

Should I run electronic shutter for the jets? I’m not particularly worried about ISO or shutter speed, though weather is looking cloudy. I figure TV mode, f/8 or so, electronic shutter, back button focus on a wide AF area and just rip ‘em off as they go past. I’ll probably come home with like 6k shots, but I’ll get the ones I need.

Ed

 

[Only RF]

You may get unexpected rolling shutter with ES. I have to point this out to see it. The beak is slightly elongated. You can really see it in the eye.

I have both the R6II and the R7 and I just did an airshow about a month ago. R6II in EFCS and the R7 in ES. Only reason I shoot the R7 in ES is I can't stand the loud and vibrating shutter. You don't suffer any blackout while burst shooting in ES but EFCS is not so bad.

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I had a tough day with the weather. Partly cloudy, windy and shooting into the sun. For jets I use fast SS. I can deal with noise later. 1/160 was tough that day but I got the prop blur shots I needed. Very low keeper rate for SS that day.

Here one sit the R6II and EFCS.

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[Only RF]

However the readout speed of the R6II is much better than the R7 so it may be negligible. No frame blackout using ES so it will be easier to track those fast jets.

A link for that as well. In the upper left corner you can select milliseconds.

https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/

While I personally have not seen any major differences I believe the R6II is 12 bit in ES. 14 in EFCS. A good read.

14-bit vs 12-bit RAW - Can You Tell The Difference?

photographylife.com

 

[Kamoshika]

Hitting up the NAS Oceana (Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA) Naval Air Show in two weeks. Plan on taking the R6II and adapted 100-400. While there are some slow aircraft, as a USAF veteran, I’m attending for the jets and there will be plenty. I’ve found EFCS to be more than adequate for most of my portrait work and haven’t felt the need to switch it up….until now.

Should I run electronic shutter for the jets? I’m not particularly worried about ISO or shutter speed, though weather is looking cloudy. I figure TV mode, f/8 or so, electronic shutter, back button focus on a wide AF area and just rip ‘em off as they go past. I’ll probably come home with like 6k shots, but I’ll get the ones I need.

Ed

For BIF, I almost always use 20FPS, usually firing in short bursts, rolling shutter issues not much of a problem. At 40FPS, which I very rarely use, I have had rolling shutter issues with some subjects and also the buffer filling up quite quickly. Actually, I was just at the airport the other day and snapped off this shot:

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[miuzi]

When I'm at an airshow with my R8, which as I understand it uses essentially the same sensor as the R6mkII, I typically use electronic shutter for the jets to allow for higher frame rates. It won't go past 6fps unless using ES. Rolling shutter has only noticeably impacted my images with helicopters and propeller aircraft, giving me some noodle-looking propellers or rotors.

Enjoy the airshow, especially the jets!

 

[esheato]

You may get unexpected rolling shutter with ES. I have to point this out to see it. The beak is slightly elongated. You can really see it in the eye.

I have both the R6II and the R7 and I just did an airshow about a month ago. R6II in EFCS and the R7 in ES. Only reason I shoot the R7 in ES is I can't stand the loud and vibrating shutter. You don't suffer any blackout while burst shooting in ES but EFCS is not so bad.

View attachment 31416

I had a tough day with the weather. Partly cloudy, windy and shooting into the sun. For jets I use fast SS. I can deal with noise later. 1/160 was tough that day but I got the prop blur shots I needed. Very low keeper rate for SS that day.

Here one sit the R6II and EFCS.

View attachment 31419

Yeah, but you can’t really tell. I mean, will people with non-photography minded eyeballs say, “psst, those duck eyes are a taaaad oval for my taste.”

Wonderful shot of the jet. I might give FV mode a shot at this event. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to change things up on the fly.

 

[esheato]

However the readout speed of the R6II is much better than the R7 so it may be negligible. No frame blackout using ES so it will be easier to track those fast jets.

View attachment 31432

A link for that as well. In the upper left corner you can select milliseconds.

https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/

While I personally have not seen any major differences I believe the R6II is 12 bit in ES. 14 in EFCS. A good read.

14-bit vs 12-bit RAW - Can You Tell The Difference?

photographylife.com

I shoot a lot of action/motion now between chasing my kids around, lacrosse games, and whatever pickup sport is happening any weekend. I’ve played with ES shooting my kiddo riding his bike or whatever and haven’t had any issues.

After reading about the bit wars, I’m of the opinion that I don’t care. Just go shoot. Even if I completely screw it up, I’ll still get to see jets and “film development” fees are non-existent. Shutter finger is ready. Let’s do this.

 

[Only RF]

Yeah, but you can’t really tell. I mean, will people with non-photography minded eyeballs say, “psst, those duck eyes are a taaaad oval for my taste.”

Wonderful shot of the jet. I might give FV mode a shot at this event. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to change things up on the fly.

Like I said I have to point that out but I know it’s there. Still didn’t stop me from posting it last year.

 

[AntonLargiader]

For panning shots with a jet (or anything without its own visible fast moving parts) I don't see how rolling shutter would be a factor. The object is relatively stationary on the sensor. Sure it's changing shape as the angle changes, but not so fast that rolling shutter is likely to be a problem.

Human limbs, bird wings, propellors... those are different because they aren't tracked by the panning. But jets? Convince me!

 

[Only RF]

There may or may not be RS. Yes jets do not have moving wings but you can see the elongated eye in the bird shot. The beak is stretched as well. We don’t know how picky people are. It may bug some and not others.

 

[AntonLargiader]

but you can see the elongated eye in the bird shot. The beak is stretched as well.

Looks like a pretty typical Northern Shoveler to me.

https://ebird.org/species/norsho

 

[Only RF]

Looks like a pretty typical Northern Shoveler to me.

https://ebird.org/species/norsho

Not to me. The eye looks round and the beak looks shorter and more thick to me. That is not my only shoveler shot. I have plenty on the water which is why I noticed it right away.

 

[Only RF]

In the yahoo search window I typed "results of camera rolling shutter".

 

[Only RF]

Hitting up the NAS Oceana (Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA) Naval Air Show in two weeks. Plan on taking the R6II and adapted 100-400. While there are some slow aircraft, as a USAF veteran, I’m attending for the jets and there will be plenty. I’ve found EFCS to be more than adequate for most of my portrait work and haven’t felt the need to switch it up….until now.

Should I run electronic shutter for the jets? I’m not particularly worried about ISO or shutter speed, though weather is looking cloudy. I figure TV mode, f/8 or so, electronic shutter, back button focus on a wide AF area and just rip ‘em off as they go past. I’ll probably come home with like 6k shots, but I’ll get the ones I need.

Ed

Just to summarize. You will likely never see rolling shutter as bad as my last post. Just illustrating it is not impossible for it to happen on a subject like a bullet train or fast moving objects. You may see some poles, etc in the background bent over from planes landing and taking off. There may be very slight rolling shutter on the subject.

In that chart I posted the R6II's readout speed is not too bad. Like someone posted I don't have the energy to cull from a 40 fps shoot. Although you can adjust EC fps on the R6II I shoot EFCS at H+ which is plenty for me.

Good luck

 

[AntonLargiader]

The bullet train example happens when you don't pan. When you do pan, the background (telephone poles, etc.) can show the distortion but the sky is not likely to show anything obvious.

Were you panning the duck? I assume you were shooting landscape, but were you?

 

[Only RF]

The bullet train example happens when you don't pan. When you do pan, the background (telephone poles, etc.) can show the distortion but the sky is not likely to show anything obvious.

Were you panning the duck? I assume you were shooting landscape, but were you?

I was panning. I’m not going to convince you nor will you convince me, which is fine by me. So I’m not gong to continue that part. The OP got some information and so did others. They can decide which is best for them.

 

[Chrisf15]

Hi, I use the R6mk2 for aircraft and never have any problems.

Chris

 

[AntonLargiader]

I was panning. I’m not going to convince you nor will you convince me, which is fine by me. So I’m not gong to continue that part. The OP got some information and so did others. They can decide which is best for them.

As an R7 owner I'm well aware of RSD. I can't use ES for most sports, or else I get oval balls and stretched limbs.

I'm trying to imagine how RSD could affect that image, with no quick-moving parts (relative to the sensor) within the subject. That's all.

 

[esheato]

Hi, I use the R6mk2 for aircraft and never have any problems.

Chris

Hi Chris,

If you don’t mind, do you use EFCS or ES?

 

[esheato]

For panning shots with a jet (or anything without its own visible fast moving parts) I don't see how rolling shutter would be a factor. The object is relatively stationary on the sensor. Sure it's changing shape as the angle changes, but not so fast that rolling shutter is likely to be a problem.

Human limbs, bird wings, propellors... those are different because they aren't tracked by the panning. But jets? Convince me!

I understand how you can make that assessment. It makes sense to me too, but I guess I’ll have to figure it out on site.

 

[ctitanic]

For airshows you need to play with two different shutter speed. For jets the faster you can the better. But for propeller planes you need the opposite. If you use a faster shutter speed the propeller is frozen in the air giving you the appearance of a plain floating in the air with the stopped propellers. You need to use 1/30 to 1/50 to get the blurry propellers that give you the appearance of a moving plain. Keep that in mind.

I would use EFCS or Mechanical to avoid the rolling shutter effect.

 

[ctitanic]

You can appreciate the effect of using slow shutter speed in propellers here in this article.

Throwing Glass — Full Disc Aviation - Sharing Aviation Photography and Stories

One of the greatest bits of wisdom I received wasn’t about settings at all. Once I understood what panning was and was comfortable with a certain shutter speed, I’d drop it again. Struggling slightly with my panning, I reached out to an incredible photographer about his technique. “Slow is smooth, a

www.fulldiscaviation.com

Check the one with the "Corsair on Landing" or the "Coast Guard Chopper" vs the one "Patrouille de France flight over NYC" where you can see the propellers.

Edited: To correct the fact pointed by Anton that the propellers of the plane are curved and it's not the effect of rolling shutter.

 

[AntonLargiader]

The Patrouille de France one is not rolling shutter; the prop blades are actually curved (could be one of these). Rolling shutter would distort the blades differently on the right and left of the engine, usually so that they all droop and/or all bend upward.

 

[ctitanic]

The Patrouille de France one is not rolling shutter; the prop blades are actually curved (could be one of these). Rolling shutter would distort the blades differently on the right and left of the engine, usually so that they all droop and/or all bend upward.

I do not know that plane so I thought it was rolling shutter. The point that I wanted to make is that the propellers on that shot are frozen and to me that shot is not appealing or at least not as much as those shots where the propellers are blurry.

Thanks for pointing that.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Totally agree; frozen props make me think the plane is about to fall out of the sky!

Depending on the exact prop speed and sensor readout time, you can get some really interesting effects, though. This page not only illustrates how the effect happens, but also has some cool examples: https://jasmcole.com/2014/10/12/rolling-shutters/

 

[ctitanic]

In the yahoo search window I typed "results of camera rolling shutter".

View attachment 31472

Hahahaha, everything is about the message. The picture in the left gives you the impression of something moving fast. The one on the right looks like stationary. So, all is about the message that you want to send. If you want to show that something is moving fast, use electronic shutter