Canon R5 R5 Focusing Issues (primarily with bald eagles)

[NancyMac]

Hi All,

I'm using an R5 with a 100-500mm lens. I feel like my lens is slow with autofocus tracking of birds in flight.

I'm using manual settings w/ my shutter speed at 1:3200 or maybe a little less, aperture 7.1,-8.0, and iso as needed.
Settings to animal, SERVO, high speed continuous exposure +, and using the back button focus button.

Should the focus be set to Expand Auto Focus Around or the face focus plus tracking??
Do I need to adjust the sensitivity AF pt select away from zero (purple screen) or do I need to change something in initial servo AF pt??

I'm super frustrated. I never had any issues with my 7D.
I feel like I'm just missing a setting or something within my camera???
Also, I have IS off, because a lot of my pics are taking from a boat.

I am mostly shooting wildlife...
Thank you very much for your assistance. I used to be 9/10 with the only issue being my exposure (under), but now I can see my adjusts as I tweak things in camera, and my issue is solely the focusing...

Nancy

 

[Kwazy]

Hopefully someone more experienced with birding will chime in, since I've only had a very limited time to mess around withe AF settings. Also, I'm using an R6, but I assume it's the same. Couple of ideas:

Focus should be set to "Face + tracking", prioritize animals
Perhaps you need to turn "Detect Eyes" on - it's off by default.

Once you have your eagle in sights, if it doesn't auto detect the head/eye of the bird, tap it on the screen and that should put a double frame around it and will start tracking it. Should focus fine after that.

Hope this helps! Come back if it doesn't.

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

In AF menu 5 what do you have Initial Servo Point set for? If it's not set to Auto then it's going to look for you to get the focus point on the eye to get it to lock. If you're using something other than L+Tracking then a lot depends on lighting and other factors - like is the eye drifting in and out of the focus area due to the boat.

For stuff like this I use L+Tracking with the ISP set to Auto, and if that doesn't work I have the control wheel on the lens set to change focus mode and have eliminated 1/2 the available ones so a good turn will get me to Large Zone AF: Horizontal where I usually get a lock fairly quickly.

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

Focus should be set to "Face + tracking", prioritize animals
Perhaps you need to turn "Detect Eyes" on - it's off by default.
... Hope this helps! Come back if it doesn't.

Good advice, but just so you know the Detect Eyes will show "Off" grayed out unless you're in the L+Tracking mode. It will still look for an eye when you 1/2 press the focus button, but it won't pre-search for one.

Just curious, you said you are using the back button. Do you have that set for eye-detect while using the front button for another mode? That works (I have mine set up this way), but it may not work as well as just shooting in L+Tracking. I've had the camera for a year and am still playing with this and will change the primary focus mode from time to time when the back button eye detect is struggling.

 

[RedCobra]

Why is IS off? Works fine on boats and bouncing safari vehicles.

 

[Dave Williams]

I have shutter button set to standard...half press and metering and AF start
AF Purple Menu Page 1 The camera is set up to single point . Servo AF.Animals. Continuous AF is disabled
AF Purple Menu Page 5 Initial Servo Pt for eye detect is single point.
Red Menu Customise buttons I select no change on the shutter button as described previously. For AF-on I choose eye detect, it's on the second row, 4th along.
and that's it. If I want to pinpoint the target then I use the shutter button. If I want the camera to lock on an eye I use the back button and keeping my thumb pressed on it, fire the shutter. The result is so easy that it becomes a bit boring. You can't expect the camera to work miracles but if the subject is large enough it will lock on an eye and stay on it. If it can't find the eye which it sometimes can't if there is no light on it it might jump to the brightest part. If the subject is fairly distant the whole bird might be locked on but not necessarily the eye.
The biggest problem area is water, especially flat calm water because then if the subject isn't large the camera will be attracted to the eye like reflection of the water but won't be able to lock on it.

I always shoot manual so you can change at a whim the shutter speed , aperture and ISO. If you have enough depth of field it doesn't matter as much if the focus isn't on the eye but somewhere near by.


The one thing that is certain though is that the R5 is indeed an incredible bit of electronics which, it seems to me, has far more options to choose than I'll ever need and I even wonder if some of them are useful to anyone. There is no right way or wrong way, just a choice of how to use it. I'm very simple in my needs and rather old fashioned. I often forget about using the touch screen to move the focus points and instead use the joystick but that was only innovated a few years ago.
I recently spent a week on a little island off Scotland . Not long ago I was delighted to come home with a handful of sharp flight shots. This time I was taking so many I was deleting hundreds. 20fps in electronic can be overkill but in each sequence there is usually a standout pose and the rest, although sharp either get deleted or never used.I attach some for perusal! I'm not an awesome photographer but I have an awesome camera.

PS I never turn IS off, in fact there's a specific mode for a rocking boat.

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

I have shutter button set to standard...half press and metering and AF start
AF Purple Menu Page 1 The camera is set up to single point . Servo AF.Animals. Continuous AF is disabled
AF Purple Menu Page 5 Initial Servo Pt for eye detect is single point.
Red Menu Customise buttons I select no change on the shutter button as described previously. For AF-on I choose eye detect, it's on the second row, 4th along.
and that's it.

Set the AF Menu 1 as follows:
AF Operation: Servo
AF Method: Face tracking (looks like an 'L' )
Subject to detect: Animals
Eye detection: Enable
Continuous AF: Disable
Touch & drag...: your choice
Focus mode: AF

In AF Menu 5 set Initial Servo Pt to Auto

Single point is not going to give you great results with eye tracking. If you use Face Tracking it will find the eye in the viewfinder without you having to press a button. If you just want to use the rear button for Eye Detect then change the AF Method to something other than single point as the camera will initially look at that point for the eye. As mentioned above, I use Large Area Horizontal when I'm not using Face Tracking.

This is not your old DSLR, so don't use it like one. I will only use single point when the subject is nearly indistinguishable from its surroundings due to shadows or insufficient light.

 

[NancyMac]

Why is IS off? Works fine on boats and bouncing safari vehicles.

Hi RedCobra,
I had IS on yesterday, and as I was bouncing around on the big ocean, it was jumping around like crazy. I've never used IS before with wildlife photography. I rely on my shutter speed to compensate. I do use IS on land, however. I just felt Iike I was fighting the camera yesterday with the IS.

 

[NancyMac]

Also, is the IS settings for boat number 3? (I'd imagine it'd be..)

 

[NancyMac]

Hopefully someone more experienced with birding will chime in, since I've only had a very limited time to mess around withe AF settings. Also, I'm using an R6, but I assume it's the same. Couple of ideas:

Focus should be set to "Face + tracking", prioritize animals
Perhaps you need to turn "Detect Eyes" on - it's off by default.

Once you have your eagle in sights, if it doesn't auto detect the head/eye of the bird, tap it on the screen and that should put a double frame around it and will start tracking it. Should focus fine after that.

Hope this helps! Come back if it

I have shutter button set to standard...half press and metering and AF start
AF Purple Menu Page 1 The camera is set up to single point . Servo AF.Animals. Continuous AF is disabled
AF Purple Menu Page 5 Initial Servo Pt for eye detect is single point.
Red Menu Customise buttons I select no change on the shutter button as described previously. For AF-on I choose eye detect, it's on the second row, 4th along.
and that's it. If I want to pinpoint the target then I use the shutter button. If I want the camera to lock on an eye I use the back button and keeping my thumb pressed on it, fire the shutter. The result is so easy that it becomes a bit boring. You can't expect the camera to work miracles but if the subject is large enough it will lock on an eye and stay on it. If it can't find the eye which it sometimes can't if there is no light on it it might jump to the brightest part. If the subject is fairly distant the whole bird might be locked on but not necessarily the eye.
The biggest problem area is water, especially flat calm water because then if the subject isn't large the camera will be attracted to the eye like reflection of the water but won't be able to lock on it.

I always shoot manual so you can change at a whim the shutter speed , aperture and ISO. If you have enough depth of field it doesn't matter as much if the focus isn't on the eye but somewhere near by.


The one thing that is certain though is that the R5 is indeed an incredible bit of electronics which, it seems to me, has far more options to choose than I'll ever need and I even wonder if some of them are useful to anyone. There is no right way or wrong way, just a choice of how to use it. I'm very simple in my needs and rather old fashioned. I often forget about using the touch screen to move the focus points and instead use the joystick but that was only innovated a few years ago.
I recently spent a week on a little island off Scotland . Not long ago I was delighted to come home with a handful of sharp flight shots. This time I was taking so many I was deleting hundreds. 20fps in electronic can be overkill but in each sequence there is usually a standout pose and the rest, although sharp either get deleted or never used.I attach some for perusal! I'm not an awesome photographer but I have an awesome camera.

PS I never turn IS off, in fact there's a specific mode for a rocking boat.

Hi Dave,

Hi Dave,

I shoot manual also and it seems like the focal settings are all off for me.

I tried them with zone today and the focus wasn't locking in anywhere near where I wanted it to be.

I have used the one point AF, but I do find that it's difficult to line that focal point up with the head of a bird in flight. I then went to the expand around area because that was easier to line up.
*****Is it possible to go with the expand around af area button, or no?

If I select your single point, and animals of course, along with servo AF, and discontinue "continuous AF" (seems counterintuitive, but ok I'll do this), then the eye detection is disabled. Don't we want eye detection enabled? It won't allow me to select that option with the single point AF. Or having the back button set to eye will do the trick?

***** You said on the "Red Menu Customize buttons I select no change on the shutter button as described previously." I'm not sure what I'm suppose or not supposed. to do here??

*****Did you make any adjustments to your Case settings (Purple AF area section 3).... Do you have yours on Case 1 still?

*****Presumably if these settings will work well for a bird in flight, then obviously it will suffice for a deer in the yard, or a lion in Africa? How about an orca whale where it won't be able to track it's eye???? That's where it's difficult to toggle the joystick super tiny button and hope it lines up with where an orca breaches and what not.... I've got less than 1 second to toggle the square around.... Just rely on my shutter speed???
*****What's a gal to do in this scenario?

Lastly, I'm a bit old fashioned too. I'm used to adjusting my ISO, aperture and shutter speed and I'm off to the races. All of these special settings are throwing me off. I was the only one able to capture a bald eagle taking out a turkey vulture today, however the images aren't nearly as sharp as I'm accustomed to.

So far I've been fairly disappointed with this camera / lens set up. I know you all rave about them, but I'm hoping with making these adjustments that I'll see a great improvement. I'm ready to put both on the market, but I'm trying to hang in there. 95% of my photos were not crisp at all today....Such a BUMMER!!!!!

Thanks again,

Nancy

 

[RedCobra]

Hi RedCobra,
I had IS on yesterday, and as I was bouncing around on the big ocean, it was jumping around like crazy. I've never used IS before with wildlife photography. I rely on my shutter speed to compensate. I do use IS on land, however. I just felt Iike I was fighting the camera yesterday with the IS.

Is IS turned on in camera and on the lens? I've shot the R5 on the Chesapeake Bay from a sailboat and not had that issue.

 

[Dave Williams]

Hi Dave,

I shoot manual also and it seems like the focal settings are all off for me.

I tried them with zone today and the focus wasn't locking in anywhere near where I wanted it to be.

I have used the one point AF, but I do find that it's difficult to line that focal point up with the head of a bird in flight. I then went to the expand around area because that was easier to line up.
*****Is it possible to go with the expand around af area button, or no?

If I select your single point, and animals of course, along with servo AF, and discontinue "continuous AF" (seems counterintuitive, but ok I'll do this), then the eye detection is disabled. Don't we want eye detection enabled? It won't allow me to select that option with the single point AF. Or having the back button set to eye will do the trick?

***** You said on the "Red Menu Customize buttons I select no change on the shutter button as described previously." I'm not sure what I'm suppose or not supposed. to do here??

*****Did you make any adjustments to your Case settings (Purple AF area section 3).... Do you have yours on Case 1 still?

*****Presumably if these settings will work well for a bird in flight, then obviously it will suffice for a deer in the yard, or a lion in Africa? How about an orca whale where it won't be able to track it's eye???? That's where it's difficult to toggle the joystick super tiny button and hope it lines up with where an orca breaches and what not.... I've got less than 1 second to toggle the square around.... Just rely on my shutter speed???
*****What's a gal to do in this scenario?

Lastly, I'm a bit old fashioned too. I'm used to adjusting my ISO, aperture and shutter speed and I'm off to the races. All of these special settings are throwing me off. I was the only one able to capture a bald eagle taking out a turkey vulture today, however the images aren't nearly as sharp as I'm accustomed to.

So far I've been fairly disappointed with this camera / lens set up. I know you all rave about them, but I'm hoping with making these adjustments that I'll see a great improvement. I'm ready to put both on the market, but I'm trying to hang in there. 95% of my photos were not crisp at all today....Such a BUMMER!!!!!

Thanks again,

Nancy

As I stated previously, there are many ways to set up your camera. No right or wrong ways, just ones that work for yourself.
The ones I use have been a personal huge leap forward. I agree, trying to put a single point on a moving bird is nigh on impossible unless it's a slow moving Heron or similar. Now I don't worry about the AF point I let the camera do that and I just worry about the composition and trying to keep the subject in the frame.
I have tried Jake's settings that he's suggested and it makes little difference in many scenarios but to me is less effective when I want to use the single point to go where I want it not where the camera chooses. That's when I use the shutter button and joystick.
The biggest single difference though is customising your buttons to work the way you want them to and Jake makes no mention of how he's set up his. The default setting for the camera is that the shutter button is set to start metering and auto focus at a half press and take a shot when fully depressed. I leave that as it is. I know people are still using what I see as a waste by disabling the shutter button to meter and AF but it never worked for me until I bought the R5 because then they have introduced eye detect.

Just try one thing! :-

Use your red menu and enable the Af-on ( or any button you choose but it's probably the best placed one) to the eye AF as described by me previously. That is the hallelujah moment when the camera searches and tries or finds the eye. Doesn't matter if you have set single point or expanded point it is no more, no less accurate with either it seems to me. If it can't find an eye it usually comes close so a moving bird will be picked up and the AF locks on for as long as you hold your back button down. Press the shutter button and it takes shots for as long as you hold it down but the eye is still being tracked.
I know lots of people don't like DPP but I use it to decide which shots to keep and which to drop in to the bin. In the quick check setting you can enable the AF point to see where it actually hit. Example below using my settings. It's not always on the eye but if you have sufficient DOF all is fine.

Will it track a Lion in Africa....I'll let you know in a few weeks time! I imagine it will, it works a treat on a domestic pet.

An Orca? It may well struggle with the eye , as it may well with Dolphins of any sort as there is a lot of reflection from the water but if there is sufficient contrast it should find the beast!

I hope you find my suggestions useful in your search to get the R5 working as you'd like. I hate to see anyone struggle when mine works so well for me. If someone else's settings suit you better that's great, just as long as you are happy!


PS I tend to use Case settings 1-3. For these Puffins it was continue to track ignoring obstacles which it did even when the Puffin landed at the back of a group and was largely hidden. Case 2. The Puffins were suddenly appearing over the top of a rise and I had a couple of seconds to grab the shots as they came down at a fair speed to join the group.

PPS Single point is the quickest way I find to put the target in the same distance zone you want to search in. I often have to focus on a nearby bigger object before starting to search for a small bird in a bush

 

[Dave Williams]

Is IS turned on in camera and on the lens? I've shot the R5 on the Chesapeake Bay from a sailboat and not had that issue.

On the RF 100-500 the IS in camera is automatically on as it is when any IS lens is attached be they RF or EF. I don't think you can disable the in body IS unless it's a non-IS lens can you?
No 3 setting is the one to set the lens IS to when on a boat from what I can recall. The 3 different settings ( on IS lenses that have 3) do seem to make a difference in performance.

 

[Kwazy]

You got a lot of advice here, some of which is conflicting. Try this and report back:

Set the AF Menu 1 as follows:
AF Operation: Servo
AF Method: Face tracking (looks like an 'L' )
Subject to detect: Animals
Eye detection: Enable
Continuous AF: Disable
Focus mode: AF

In AF Menu 5 set Initial Servo Pt to Auto

As far as "Continuous AF" goes, the reason it's off while Servo is on, is because it will try to maintain focus at all times, and that'll drain your battery real quick. Better to have the camera auto focus while you're pressing a button - the AF-On button, or the shutter button.

 

[NancyMac]

Good advice, but just so you know the Detect Eyes will show "Off" grayed out unless you're in the L+Tracking mode. It will still look for an eye when you 1/2 press the focus button, but it won't pre-search for one.

Just curious, you said you are using the back button. Do you have that set for eye-detect while using the front button for another mode? That works (I have mine set up this way), but it may not work as well as just shooting in L+Tracking. I've had the camera for a year and am still playing with this and will change the primary focus mode from time to time when the back button eye detect is struggling.

Hi Jake,
Per group suggestion I have shutter set to 1 point AF (seems like a very small spot to be lucky enough to line up with a breaching whale or fast flying bird) and then the back focus to eyeAF (2nd row - 4th from the left)

With choosing one point from my shutter tho it disables eye detection in AF section 1.

Ugh!!

 

[Kwazy]

Per group suggestion I have shutter set to 1 point AF

No! Use "Face + Tracking"

 

[NancyMac]

Good advice, but just so you know the Detect Eyes will show "Off" grayed out unless you're in the L+Tracking mode. It will still look for an eye when you 1/2 press the focus button, but it won't pre-search for one.

Just curious, you said you are using the back button. Do you have that set for eye-detect while using the front button for another mode? That works (I have mine set up this way), but it may not work as well as just shooting in L+Tracking. I've had the camera for a year and am still playing with this and will change the primary focus mode from time to time when the back button eye detect is

No! Use "Face + Tracking"

I’ve switched it to face +,tracking. There’s no way I was gonna line up that little square with any fast moving animal. I’ve done that.

Here’s where I’m at. Please let me know if I missed anything -

AF screen (purple)
Servo AF
AF to Face plus tracking
Animals
Eye detection enable
Cont AF disabled

Screen 3
Case 1
No changes to tracking or acel or decel?

Screen 5
Initial servo point for AF pt is face plus tracking and is at Auto

Camera settings
Customize buttons

Shutter at half press metering and AF start
AF on button set to eye AF (2nd row 4th across)

Are these all I need to make to get some clear images? Thanks. Nancy

 

[NancyMac]

Good advice, but just so you know the Detect Eyes will show "Off" grayed out unless you're in the L+Tracking mode. It will still look for an eye when you 1/2 press the focus button, but it won't pre-search for one.

Just curious, you said you are using the back button. Do you have that set for eye-detect while using the front button for another mode? That works (I have mine set up this way), but it may not work as well as just shooting in L+Tracking. I've had the camera for a year and am still playing with this and will change the primary focus mode from time to time when the back button eye detect is struggling.

Back button for eyes AF. ???

 

[NancyMac]

Why is IS off? Works fine on boats and bouncing safari vehicles.

On

 

[NancyMac]

Hi. I’m replying on my cell so can’t see where you wrote to turn IS on in my camera
On red settings (camera) section 7 there isn’t an IS option. The first option is to enable Tocuh Shutter. IS should be the first option. It’s not there. ??

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

I’ve switched it to face +,tracking. There’s no way I was gonna line up that little square with any fast moving animal. I’ve done that.

Here’s where I’m at. Please let me know if I missed anything -

AF screen (purple)
Servo AF
AF to Face plus tracking
Animals
Eye detection enable
Cont AF disabled

Screen 3
Case 1
No changes to tracking or acel or decel?

Screen 5
Initial servo point for AF pt is face plus tracking and is at Auto

Camera settings
Customize buttons

Shutter at half press metering and AF start
AF on button set to eye AF (2nd row 4th across)

Are these all I need to make to get some clear images? Thanks. Nancy

Only thing I would do is set Screen 3 to Auto (the advice of most pro-reps) unless you have specific cases where the subject meets one of the specific criteria. I actually use Case 4 but changed the Tracking to -1 so it sticks on the initial subject better, but that speaks to the small birds I tend to shoot.

It takes a couple weeks of shooting to fine tune, and as I said I've enabled the control wheel on the lens to allow me to switch between focus points. I've used AF Menu 4-Limit Focus Methods to eliminate all but Face Tracking, Expanded Area and Large Zone Horizontal as those are what I've found useful and it doesn't require me to move through things I'll never use.

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

Back button for eyes AF. ???

Yes, but I only use it when I have something other than Face Tracking as the focus method.

 

[Kwazy]

Please let me know if I missed anything

Looks good.

IS should be the first option. It’s not there

Make sure IS is turned-on on your lens. Then it should be in Red-7, but that's probably on anyway.

 

[Kwazy]

Conflicting?! Really?! Please explain, because there's nothing conflicting about any of it

You told her to have Face+Tracking and Dave Williams told her to set Single Point AF. She got confused.

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

You told her to have Face+Tracking and Dave Williams told her to set Single Point AF. She got confused.

I thought originally you were saying my settings conflicted with each other. Only afterward did I realize what you meant and deleted it.

 

[Kwazy]

Nope. Your advice was pretty consistent : ) I tweaked my settings to match yours as well. Hoping to a catch some bees in flight.

 

[NancyMac]

I thought originally you were saying my settings conflicted with each other. Only afterward did I realize what you meant and deleted it.

Yes the single point will not work out for me. I had it set to single in Yellowstone in the winter and was so frustrated so I moved it to expand around so that at least I had a larger bullseye to toggle around. Got some decent pics.

Now another question. I’ve followed all instructions thus far …

If my shutter release is set to face plus tracking then what should by back button be set to in order to compliment this, or as a plan B If face tracking isn’t cutting it?

And are these the best settings for further away subjects like breaching whales (maybe 100+ yards away ish)

Someone mentioned keeping IS on on my lens. This didn’t work well for me at all. It had a mind of its own and was bouncing around. Then they suggested turning on IS in camera too. In the camera section (red) I don’t have an IS option.

Thanks all,
Nancy.

 

[Kwazy]

Jake said he uses the AF-On button for "Eye Tracking" for the case when his AF is set to anything other than Face+Tracking. Not sure you could do better than that.

as a plan B If face tracking isn’t cutting it?

If the camera won't detect automatically (while shutter release is half-pressed or AF-on is pressed), I think your only resort is to tap the target (bird) on the screen. That'll put a double frame around it, lock onto the target, and will track it continuously for as long as the bird is in the view of the camera. That tells the camera exactly what you want to focus on, so it won't decide that something else is more important.

 

[NancyMac]

Yes the single point will not work out for me. I had it set to single in Yellowstone in the winter and was so frustrated so I moved it to expand around so that at least I had a larger bullseye to toggle around. Got some decent pics.

Now another question. I’ve followed all instructions thus far …

If my shutter release is set to face plus tracking then what should by back button be set to in order to compliment this, or as a plan B If face tracking isn’t cutting it?

And are these the best settings for further away subjects like breaching whales (maybe 100+ yards away ish)

Someone mentioned keeping IS on on my lens. This didn’t work well for me at all. It had a mind of its own and was bouncing around. Then they suggested turning on IS in camera too. In the camera section (red) I don’t have an IS option.

Thanks all,
Nancy.

Jake said he uses the AF-On button for "Eye Tracking" for the case when his AF is set to anything other than Face+Tracking. Not sure you could do better than that.


If the camera won't detect automatically (while shutter release is half-pressed or AF-on is pressed), I think your only resort is to tap the target (bird) on the screen. That'll put a double frame around it, lock onto the target, and will track it continuously for as long as the bird is in the view of the camera. That tells the camera exactly what you want to focus on, so it won't decide that something else is more important.

got it. Thank you, Kwazy.
Any idea on the IS mode to be "set up" within camera? I don't have that option in my camera on camera set up (red screen), page 7....

 

[Kwazy]

Any idea on the IS mode to be "set up" within camera? I don't have that option in my camera on camera set up (red screen), page 7....

My guess is that's because IS is turned off with the physical switch on your lens, since as you said, it didn't work out well in your situation.
If it's off on the lens, it's off in the camera as well, and the setting will be hidden. I think. Don't have the camera with me right now to double check.