Anyone Shoot their FF in Crop Mode for Specific Situations?

[JoeTheSnowPlowGuy]

I’m curious how this has worked for the folks that have done it. Just got my 70-200 in and started playing around with 1.6 crop mode to extend the reach a little. I know I could just crop in post, but when doing high volume shooting the crop mode could help cut down on time in post.

I shoot the R6 Mark 2, I know it crops to about 9.3 MP, which should be just fine for sports. I was thinking of setting up C1 to my sports settings for button mapping. Any limitations shooting in H+ while in crop mode?

 

[Archibald]

Reach comes from pixel density, not from crop. So whether you shoot in crop mode or crop the FF frame later, the pixels-on-subject and IQ will be the same.

The only thing is, the AF might work better on distant subjects if you are shooting in crop mode.

 

[David Berry]

Anyone shoot FF in crop mode?

No.

I cannot think of a reason for cropping the image as I take it; however, I can readily imagine ruining a shot — BIF tops the list — where I might lose the subject by 'pre-cropping' the image in camera.

For me, crop mode (versus full frame) and JPEG (versus RAW) defeat the raising d'être of owning a camera like an R5.

… David

 

[Kerro]

I don't usually shoot in crop mode but I do have a couple of EF-S lenses that will automatically change to crop mode for me. It doesn't worry me one way or the other, I still get the image in the end. Having said that though, I have been experimenting with the RF 800/11 in crop mode to see what it can do. I was trying to get Jupiter the other night but I think I need more practice. I can get it with its 4 visible moons but blur is too much of an issue at present.

 

[JoeTheSnowPlowGuy]

I’m thinking of using crop mode for hockey. For sports photography turning the images around quickly is important and if I know I’m going to crop a composition having a button mapped to switch to that mode at the time of capture makes post editing that much faster.

 

[Only RF]

Reach comes from pixel density, not from crop. So whether you shoot in crop mode or crop the FF frame later, the pixels-on-subject and IQ will be the same.

The only thing is, the AF might work better on distant subjects if you are shooting in crop mode.

Yes. An option for crop lenses. I tried it once with a FF lens and never seen any benefit.

 

[AKVet]

I have the 1.4 TC, but I prefer to use 1:6 crop mode instead of having to physically mount the TC. In fact, I haven't used my TC since I discovered my crop mode setting on my R5. I have assigned the 1:6 crop mode to my "pinky button" so I can access it quickly. As a wildlife photographer, sometimes I am in a situation where I don't have time to mount the TC. I have been very happy with the results. Another plus is I don't get the penalty of having the aperture stopped down when using the TC.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I have the 1.4 TC, but I prefer to use 1:6 crop mode instead of having to physically mount the TC. In fact, I haven't used my TC since I discovered my crop mode setting on my R5. I have assigned the 1:6 crop mode to my "pinky button" so I can access it quickly. As a wildlife photographer, sometimes I am in a situation where I don't have time to mount the TC. I have been very happy with the results. Another plus is I don't get the penalty of having the aperture stopped down when using the TC.

So what benefit do you get by doing that? Just smaller files?

 

[JoeTheSnowPlowGuy]

I think the main benefit for me would be saving time in post cropping, and being able to real time compose a shot that I know I’m going to crop anyways.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I can see that. Today I was shooting some field hockey and even with two cameras I had some shots that were obviously going to get cropped later on if they were any good. Cropping in-camera would have given me a closer starting point. However, for action I think I prefer to keep the wider view to tell me more about what's happening. Framing tightly on something that's moving fast is a challenge. For a while I tried the 300 + 1.4X on the R7... yeah, it was nice and close, but it was also hard to follow the action.

How does the size of the AF points/areas change in crop mode? Do they get re-scaled to the frame, or are they correspondingly bigger? Yeah, I know I could just try it myself... maybe tomorrow.

 

[AKVet]

So what benefit do you get by doing that? Just smaller files?

I use it for reach... it gives me an effective focal length of 800mm when using my 100-500mm.

 

[Archibald]

I use it for reach... it gives me an effective focal length of 800mm when using my 100-500mm.

Switching to crop mode changes the angle of view to that of an 800mm lens, but the pixels recording your subject stay exactly the same. Your viewfinder gets reach, your files don't.

 

[Stephen]

Switching to crop mode changes the angle of view to that of an 800mm lens, but the pixels recording your subject stay exactly the same. Your viewfinder gets reach, your files don't.

Then, what are the benefits of using FF in ordinary condition? If I use a higher pixel density/unit area APSC camera e.g. EOS-R7, would it be better?
(EOS-R7, 32.5MP, 22.3 x 14.8mm Vs EOS-R5, 45MP, 36 x 24mm Vs EOS-R6 II, 24.2MP, 36 x 24mm)

 

[AntonLargiader]

Most people wouldn't consider cropping adding reach because, well, it's just cropping.You could crop the FF image in photoshop (or whatever program you use) for the same result. But it does give you a magnified view as Archibald mentioned.

Adding reach is generally some kind of increased pixels-on-target, like longer FL or greater sensor density. So yes, a higher density sensor (and the R7 is I think the densest that Canon makes) does give you more resolution that way but it's not totally that simple. FF vs Crop is something that has been written about for years upon years now so I don't think I can possibly summarize that history in a single post, but for one thing I think you need good glass to get the best out of the high-density sensors. Otherwise you just have very high resolution of a blurry edge. I have both and am still figuring out what works best.

 

[Archibald]

Then, what are the benefits of using FF in ordinary condition? If I use a higher pixel density/unit area APSC camera e.g. EOS-R7, would it be better?
(EOS-R7, 32.5MP, 22.3 x 14.8mm Vs EOS-R5, 45MP, 36 x 24mm Vs EOS-R6 II, 24.2MP, 36 x 24mm)

I almost always switch to the R7 when shooting birds or bugs. These are very different genres. But in both of these cases, I'm usually reach-limited. By that, I mean that I almost always crop the image, to make the bird or bug look bigger afterwards on the monitor. The pixel density really helps the image quality when you have to crop.

You can use FF for this type of shooting too, for the same or better results, but it is harder. Thus, instead of shooting R7/500mm, you would have to shoot with an actual 800mm lens on the R5. With close-in macro shooting, still using the 100mm macro lens, you would need to use an extension tube to get the same framing, and stop down a stop for the same DOF, and then boost the flash a lot to get the same amount of light. The flash would need to be bigger, otherwise the flash duration becomes longer, and that risks motion-blurring. In short, the macro rig would be much bigger and clumsier. But it would get great results.

That is just some of the technical aspects of it. As Anton mentioned, there is more to it.

For more normal shooting where I don't expect to have to crop much, then the R5 and the fantastic RF 24-105mm L lens is my choice. The R7 isn't very suitable here because Canon doesn't make an L-grade normal zoom (yet) for crop-frame mirrorless cameras.

 

[Only RF]

The RF 24-105 F4 surprised me. Not an R5 but the R62 stood its ground. Cropped in post.

 

[Archibald]

Yeah, the EF versions of the 24-105 did not always garner such good reviews, but the RF is amazing.

 

[Stephen]

I almost always switch to the R7 when shooting birds or bugs. These are very different genres. But in both of these cases, I'm usually reach-limited. By that, I mean that I almost always crop the image, to make the bird or bug look bigger afterwards on the monitor. The pixel density really helps the image quality when you have to crop.

You can use FF for this type of shooting too, for the same or better results, but it is harder. Thus, instead of shooting R7/500mm, you would have to shoot with an actual 800mm lens on the R5. With close-in macro shooting, still using the 100mm macro lens, you would need to use an extension tube to get the same framing, and stop down a stop for the same DOF, and then boost the flash a lot to get the same amount of light. The flash would need to be bigger, otherwise the flash duration becomes longer, and that risks motion-blurring. In short, the macro rig would be much bigger and clumsier. But it would get great results.

That is just some of the technical aspects of it. As Anton mentioned, there is more to it.

For more normal shooting where I don't expect to have to crop much, then the R5 and the fantastic RF 24-105mm L lens is my choice. The R7 isn't very suitable here because Canon doesn't make an L-grade normal zoom (yet) for crop-frame mirrorless cameras.

I prefer a high pixel density/unit area camera. For outdoor shooting, I usually carry an EOS-R7 camera and EF 100mm f/2.8 macro IS lens (FF 160mm) as I am a butterfly shooter and recently a bug shooter as well. I seldom shoot birds. The camera surprised me.

One day, we saw two butterflies in mating positions at a great distance. We couldn't come closer as there was a fence and bushes in front of us.
In the EVF, they looked very small, but I still took the picture. I use the x5 magnifier to locate a more precise focus position and wait for the wind to stop blowing.


Uncropped photo

Cropped Photo ( Post-processed: DPP and Topaz Denoise AI)

 

[Archibald]

I prefer a high pixel density/unit area camera. For outdoor shooting, I usually carry an EOS-R7 camera and EF 100mm f/2.8 macro IS lens (FF 160mm) as I am a butterfly shooter and recently a bug shooter as well. I seldom shoot birds. The camera surprised me.

One day, we saw two butterflies in mating positions at a great distance. We couldn't come closer as there was a fence and bushes in front of us.
In the EVF, they looked very small, but I still took the picture. I use the x5 magnifier to locate a more precise focus position and wait for the wind to stop blowing.


Uncropped photo

View attachment 22012


Cropped Photo ( Post-processed: DPP and Topaz Denoise AI)

View attachment 22013

Well done, Stephen. That worked very well, especially since you made sure the focus was accurate.

 

[Stephen]

Thanks. I had failed many times to get the correct focus position for distinct objects. This is learned from mistakes.
For bugs shooting with handheld focus stacking at a magnification of around 1x, I don't use the BBF method, I use the x5 magnifier.
I had failed many times to locate the initial focus position (usually the most important point) using BBF method, I found that the x5 magnifier is more precise.

 

[Archibald]

Thanks. I had failed many times to get the correct focus position for distinct objects. This is learned from mistakes.
For bugs shooting with handheld focus stacking at a magnification of around 1x, I don't use the BBF method, I use the x5 magnifier.
I had failed many times to locate the initial focus position (usually the most important point) using BBF method, I found that the x5 magnifier is more precise.

Sounds good! I will have to try that.

 

[Stephen]

Sounds good! I will have to try that.

As we cannot assign focus stacking mode to a button, for quick access, I place it in the Quick Menu.
I also assign a button (M-Fn) for quick access to the x5 magnifier.
I also enable the #gridline in the viewfinder.
I use one shot AF and spot AF area.

My gears: R7, EF 100mm f/2.8 macro IS

Procedure for taking in-camera focus stacking at a magnification of around 1x
1. Turn the focusing ring of the lens to 0.3M (magnification of around 1x)
2. Set the focusing distance range selection switch to 0.3-0.5M position
3. Move the AF point to sit roughly at the nearer end of your preferred focal range (the subject),
4. Move the camera (without moving the focusing ring) back and forth until a clear image is obtained
5. Acquire and set the exposure parameters and focus bracketing/depth composite parameters.
6. Compose the photo and activate the x5 magnified by pressing M-Fn button.
7. Fine-tune the focus position and half-press the shutter button to set the focus.
8. Press the shutter button completely to start shooting. (EVF will return to normal magnification)
9. Hold the camera and maintain the same scene throughout the shooting process.


Some links to the articles (about focus stacking techniques) published by Mark Overmars were shared in the Marco and Closeup genres.

 

[Archibald]

As we cannot assign focus stacking mode to a button, for quick access, I place it in the Quick Menu.
I also assign a button (M-Fn) for quick access to the x5 magnifier.
I also enable the #gridline in the viewfinder.
I use one shot AF and spot AF area.

My gears: R7, EF 100mm f/2.8 macro IS

Procedure for taking in-camera focus stacking at a magnification of around 1x
1. Turn the focusing ring of the lens to 0.3M (magnification of around 1x)
2. Set the focusing distance range selection switch to 0.3-0.5M position
3. Move the AF point to sit roughly at the nearer end of your preferred focal range (the subject),
4. Move the camera (without moving the focusing ring) back and forth until a clear image is obtained
5. Acquire and set the exposure parameters and focus bracketing/depth composite parameters.
6. Compose the photo and activate the x5 magnified by pressing M-Fn button.
7. Fine-tune the focus position and half-press the shutter button to set the focus.
8. Press the shutter button completely to start shooting. (EVF will return to normal magnification)
9. Hold the camera and maintain the same scene throughout the shooting process.


Some links to the articles (about focus stacking techniques) published by Mark Overmars were shared in the Marco and Closeup genres.

Thank you very much for the detailed instructions, Stephen. It is valuable information. I will give it a try when I can.