Arguments/Internet/Social Media

[Photofarmer]

Seems to be popping up more and more the push against back button focus.

Some of the arguments and vitriol is just wow.

Like people are going to war over it sheez .

It's a method of photography some use it some dont no big deal either way and depends on your genre.

All starts with influencers then off it goes.

Have a top sunday all.

Oh PS I use it.

Oh double PS got my rodeo photography accreditation last week what a saga to get the ticket. yeeehaw

 

[SwampGrizz]

It’s surprising what some people get their pants in a wad about. There’s always some expert jackass out there telling you how to take photos. Where it rubs me wrong is when a beginner asks an honest question about something that they genuinely want to know about, and they are immediately reminded that they are not using the correct camera/lens/mode etc. Who cares if you don’t use back button focus? You don’t even have to use focus at all if that’s the look you’re going for. Sheeez is right. There are some really good educators out there, and they are well worth listening to, but you have to wade through miles of stuff to get to them.

That’s the beauty of this site. There are some really talented photographers here that are willing to share their time and expertise with others. I have YET to see any hint of arrogance or condescension here.

Congrats on the rodeo certification! Go out and buy a cowboy hat. You deserve it.

PS I use it too.

Thanks for triggering me, I have been wanting to vent about this for a while. I feel better now.

 

[Tsubaki]

Welp, I had never heard of Fv until a couple of months ago; what a load of malarky. Decided to try it and its become my favourite method.

I've never used back button focus either and its very unlikely... oooh lookit, a rabbit hole!

 

[JCBigler]

I tried using back button focus for awhile.

I didn't care for it. I find it's faster to just use the half shutter press. I reset my back buttons to swap between the auto focus modes instead.

 

[Photofarmer]

Software wars as well LR v C1 v PL v Luminar etc etc

Some of the beginner sites are down right horrible

Should be called anti social media eh @SwampGrizz

 

[SwampGrizz]

Software wars as well LR v C1 v PL v Luminar etc etc

Some of the beginner sites are down right horrible

Should be called anti social media eh @SwampGrizz

Exactly. Anti social indeed. Some people would argue over a stop sign.

 

[Archibald]

It's beliefs. We all have beliefs. Beliefs are things we hold as truth but may not be supported by facts.

It's no use trotting out facts to change someone's beliefs. They aren't going to use logic if it wasn't logic that got them there to begin with (usually).

Politics and religion are based on beliefs and are no-no topics in forums.

Yes, back-button focus and use of protective filters can be based on beliefs.

 

[snegron]

Some forum sites and FB pages are ruthless whenever you bring up pretty much any topic whatsoever. It's almost like some members are sitting by their devices ready to pounce on anyone who dares ask any question at all regardless of the topic.

Interesting observation;

- A few years ago I ran a photography club for middle school kids (grades 6, 7, and 8). I provided cameras to the kids who didn't have their own (I owned a bunch of Nikon D200's and Canon Rebels I let the kids borrow). Observing the kids interact with one another was very similar to the way folks act on social media. Most kids were civil to one another, but a few were a bit mean to kids who asked questions. They would also try to take over the assignments and brag about how their equipment, shooting style, etc was better or the only way to achieve good results. I made it a point to ensure all kids felt welcome and encouraged everyone to not only ask questions, but also to switch out between the Nikons and Canons I provided. I also had them team up in pairs with different kids every session just so they could learn from one another.

 

[josephandrews222]

It's beliefs. We all have beliefs. Beliefs are things we hold as truth but may not be supported by facts.

It's no use trotting out facts to change someone's beliefs. They aren't going to use logic if it wasn't logic that got them there to begin with (usually).

Politics and religion are based on beliefs and are no-no topics in forums.

Yes, back-button focus and use of protective filters can be based on beliefs.

...this is a complicated subject for me.

I've taught the scientific principles that form the foundation of our understanding of climate change--taught at the highest level.

These are, generally speaking...facts.

Scientific facts.

To witness politicians twist and ignore scientific facts, in order to suit their own agendas, troubles me.

Greatly.

I used to be able to ignore these politicians.

Then they started to try and tell me what I should profess--and what I should research.

I no longer ignore them.

=====

But yes, the general subject of photography (as represented by rfshooters) is a wonderful respite from the unnecessary nonsense of today's world.

 

[MSH411]

It really is quite insane when you think about it. Knowledge is gained from exposure to different ideas, processes and techniques. You learn from that exposure and draw out of it what you best feel will help you grow, whatever it be photography, politics, science, woodworking.......

In Joseph's example the old adage facts speak louder then words has totally been lost in the political quagmire.

I completely stay away from topics like BBF and what I believe is the more volatile SOOC vs post production processing. It really is a same that the art of respectful, collaborative conversation has been for the most part has been lost in our interaction.

I didn't use BBF but listen to all that people discussed about its benefits. I use BBF now.

 

[Si Keen]

I don't think its just photography.
The whole social media thing at the moment is pretty disheartening. I'm hoping its bots as no matter the subject their are trolls everywhere being utterly sub human. The floods in Nepal is a prime example. The number of racist, hurtful and disgusting comments was utterly soul destroying, all aimed at people who had lost everything.

Photography is a strange game, I once joined a local photography club, to see if there were any like minded individuals that could further my journey, trips out, socialise etc.
Now I'm not shy by any imagination, having been referred to as a "Gob Shite" on more than one occasion.
Well, I lasted 1 night!
What a bunch of self absorbed old coffin dodgers. If you didn't shoot OS then you needed flog yourself bloody.
I remember 2 old boys who kept making a big thing that they were area judges, commenting on another new comers photos (only a young lad I think he was around 13 at the time) they stated that they hated them and " what a waste of a scenery" the pictures were. His crime.......long exposure on a beautiful shot of the waterfalls at Fairy pools on Isle of Skye. It was genuinely a great shot and obviously he was upset.
Well, I had to say something and lets just say I wasn't invited back. Thankfully the lad continued to shoot and I often go out with him and his dad. Much to my annoyance as his shots are often way better than mine.

PS I use triple BBF because I'm special (Very handy for BIF (each with a different focus area)

 

[SwampGrizz]

I will add to the above comments that it also depends on how much you have invested in your beliefs and in what you believe to be the truth. Joseph reminds us that facts are facts, no way around it. You can have your own opinion, but you can’t have your own facts. You can draw your own opinions and beliefs from the facts, but that’s when we start wandering off into sketchy territory. Some of the camera/lens fanboys have taken a look at the spec sheet facts, and formed a belief/opinion that their stuff is the best stuff out there. They invested heavily into this particular belief, and because it’s the equipment they use, then it must be the best and correct stuff to use. The facts be dammned. When someone dares to express a different opinion or belief, the bully comes out. Some things are worth arguing about, but BBF and SOOC vs Post Processing aren’t unless you’re heavily invested in them, and don’t have anything else to do.

 

[SwampGrizz]

Si Keen,
Thanks for giving the old farts a piece of your mind. Thanks also for staying connected to the young man, and encouraging his interest in photography.
You get points for “old coffin dodgers”. Can I use that in the future?

 

[MikeZ]

I will add to the above comments that it also depends on how much you have invested in your beliefs and in what you believe to be the truth. Joseph reminds us that facts are facts, no way around it. You can have your own opinion, but you can’t have your own facts. You can draw your own opinions and beliefs from the facts, but that’s when we start wandering off into sketchy territory. Some of the camera/lens fanboys have taken a look at the spec sheet facts, and formed a belief/opinion that their stuff is the best stuff out there. They invested heavily into this particular belief, and because it’s the equipment they use, then it must be the best and correct stuff to use. The facts be dammned. When someone dares to express a different opinion or belief, the bully comes out. Some things are worth arguing about, but BBF and SOOC vs Post Processing aren’t unless you’re heavily invested in them, and don’t have anything else to do.

I can't agree more - tolerance seems to be lacking in today's society. There are too many arguments over relatively unimportant topics, too much manipulation of the truth (MY truth versus YOUR truth - Lord, that logic escapes me). That aphorism attributed to Walt Whitman - be curious, not judgemental - should be the guide for every discourse. An open mind is imperative, and I also don't believe that Whitman wrote that.

FWIW, I've tried BBF and just couldn't get used to it. It works, and it's reminiscent of how I worked in the manual focus days - expose the image, then focus on the subject - but right now with mirror-less and auto focus it just doesn't work for me though I probably should try it again.

 

[SwampGrizz]

MikeZ nails it……
MY truth versus YOUR truth…..

 

[Archibald]

@Si Keen - don't judge all camera clubs by just one. I have been a member of several over the years. The one before the current ones just didn't work for me. I stayed a member, and in fact was even granted a life membership in that club, but the overall experience was not good. By comparison, I'm in two currently, and both are really great - wonderful people, lots of learning experiences, and plenty of shoots with like-minded members.

 

[Grumps]

MY truth versus YOUR truth

A variation on the theme...
"My opinion trumps your facts."

 

[Grumps]

Si Keen,
Thanks for giving the old farts a piece of your mind. Thanks also for staying connected to the young man, and encouraging his interest in photography.
You get points for “old coffin dodgers”. Can I use that in the future?

FYI - The term "coffin dodger" has been around on the internet longer than I have (i.e. nearly half my current age).

 

[Grumps]

Scientific facts.

To witness politicians twist and ignore scientific facts, in order to suit their own agendas, troubles me.

You do realise you can obtain a degree in Political Science from universities in the UK?

(It is a mix that confuses me somewhat)

 

[josephandrews222]

I can't agree more - tolerance seems to be lacking in today's society. There are too many arguments over relatively unimportant topics, too much manipulation of the truth (MY truth versus YOUR truth - Lord, that logic escapes me). That aphorism attributed to Walt Whitman - be curious, not judgemental - should be the guide for every discourse. An open mind is imperative, and I also don't believe that Whitman wrote that.

FWIW, I've tried BBF and just couldn't get used to it. It works, and it's reminiscent of how I worked in the manual focus days - expose the image, then focus on the subject - but right now with mirror-less and auto focus it just doesn't work for me though I probably should try it again.

There are times when expressed sentiments require precision.

Now is one of those times.

I have plenty of tolerance for the feelings of a coal miner and his/her family over the fact that coal is the dirtiest fuel out there (not just sulfur in coal/acid rain), and that policies have been enacted that reduce our dependence on the combustion of coal as far as energy production is concerned.

I have zero tolerance for the politicians who carry the water for the fossil fuel industry, and, at the very least, distort real facts and distort real data in this area of, basically, known science.

So this word 'tolerance'...handle with care.

As for the relevance of this sort of discussion as it pertains to photography?

To quote an old Genesis song (not the Bible):

"I know what I like...and I like what I know."

Some of the photography on-line arguments are a huuuugggge waste of electrons, and easy (at least for me) to ignore.

Whatever asylum modern science and biomedical research is in, in 2026, it is being run by the inmates...and we ignore it at our peril.

It is almost as if the United States is in the midst of its own Cultural Revolution...which the Communist Chinese tried decades ago.

 

[SwampGrizz]

FYI - The term "coffin dodger" has been around on the internet longer than I have (i.e. nearly half my current age).

It’s a new one on me, though. The way Si used it was perfect.

 

[SwampGrizz]

Joseph said:
“Some of the photography on-line arguments are a huuuugggge waste of electrons, and easy (at least for me) to ignore.”

Exactly.

 

[THXGEEK]

Congrats on the rodeo certification! Go out and buy a cowboy hat. You deserve it.

+1

My one and only cowboy hat comes from a western wear shop in Estes Park Colorado. I don't know if its still there, but its a hellacious hat. My sister and I visited Colorado after attending the PBR finals in Las Vegas waaay back when. Good times.



Yes, I am also a BBF kinda guy. Don't hate me. But I'm fine either way.

Finally, if all you have to worry in life is which button to push to auto-focus your camera, then, well, you are probably doing OK (First World Problem).

 

[SwampGrizz]

"Finally, if all you have to worry in life is which button to push to auto-focus your camera, then, well, you are probably doing OK (First World Problem)."

Indeed!!!!

I am ashamed to admit that I don't have a cowboy hat. I feel pretty inadequate. Maybe we can get an argument started about which cowboy hat would be the correct hat for me to buy. It is my firm belief and opinion that an f2.8 weather sealed cowboy hat is far superior to the f4 hats, and anybody that does not agree with me is ill informed.

This has been a very good thread.

 

[Photofarmer]

PS I wear whats called a "bucket hat" despite being a farmer no cowboy hat here will have to get one probably cost as much as a sd card

Edit I use DXO photolab for editing release of PL10 is due probably 1st or 2nd sept the software arguments will fire up.....it's all contrast maybe colour and noise adjustments and a horizon level all do it all do it in a slightly different way and the pay once its your rather than subscription gets a little old. I update every year so costs similar I dont spin bullshit to say its cheaper its not....