De-noise programmes

[Dave Williams]

I keep on hearing good things about DXO so I thought I'd give it a go using a free trial for 14 days.
I already have Topaz Photo AI and online subscriptions to Photoshop and Lightroom.
I have used Photoshop for many years but I'm a dabbler and have never had a lesson on how to use it, I haven't even bothered following the demos that are provided free either. Typical bloke I don't "do" instructions unless it's the last chance saloon and I'm stuck.
Lightroom I have always been confused by so abandon it very quickly although I do see some features that are very useful like copying editing recipes and pasteing to another similar shot. You can do that in DPP too but at my age I don't have the time to wait /waste it's so slow in everything. Not only that it crashes on a regular basis too since I bought the R52
When Topaz was first launched I bought a copy and was mightily impressed, much easier to use and more effective than Photoshop de-noise so I tended to do my PP in Photoshop then de-noise the Jpeg at the end. When Topaz changed to Topaz AI I fell out of love very quickly. In my opinion it's awful. It tries to do everything and fails in my opinion. The de-noise is OK but it wants to sharpen everything too so you waste time telling it not to, or adjusting the levels.
Photoshop on the other hand has improved dramatically! Open a shot in camera RAW and the de-noise takes the same amount of time, perhaps slightly less, than DXO. There is a very easy layers option too so you can simply adjust the subject and background separately. I'm more than happy to keep this as my main post processing tool. I do still use DPP to view, rate and cull shots before dropping the ones I want to keep in to Photoshop.
Back to the actual de-noise function and as a simple test I took one particular shot of a Roseate Spoonbill, taken early one morning before the sun was up and created a jpeg with no alterations whatsoever. I then did the same with the raw file de-noising in Topaz and then doing the same in DXO. The produced DNG was then cropped in Photoshop and converted to Jpeg.
The shot was taken on my R5 with a n EF 500mm f4 lens. 1/1600sec, f4 and ISO3200.
The original RAW cropped and converted to Jpeg shows some noise

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Topaz AI with the sharpen function cancelled

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DXO then PS to crop and convert

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and finally PS Camera RAW to de-noise and crop then open in PS to convert to jpeg.

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I think DXO is slightly more pleasing but that can be easily achieved using PS so I won't be spending another £109 on downloading it.

I'm not sure you will be able to see much difference in the downloads on here, there isn't that much difference between the three anyway. However, in my opinion Adobe Photoshop is still the way to go no matter how many plaudits other programmes get. Yes you pay each and every month but you get a complete and usable programme and Lightroom is available in the same package. To those who are hanging on to their old stand alone Photoshop programmes you really are missing out. Today's version is far superior.

 

[Only RF]

A few days after the release of Adobe Denoise AI I got rid of all my 3rd party NR apps which included DXO, Topaz and ON1 products. I only kept Topaz Sharpen AI which I don't use very often.

If you are using ACR you will see that Denoise AI no longer creates a new DNG file. That is coming to LrC and I'm hoping at the April mid year update. Since Adobe does major updates year round we can get that at any time. LrC is like ACR but on steroids. You should consider having a look a it again.

What do you find confusing about LrC? It has so many features now that I have not sent a file to PS for additional editing since LrC11 and now it is version 14. Perhaps I can help you with LrC and I'm going to guess it's the catalogue system. I struggled with it for the first month as well and I wish there had been more videos, etc in 2011.

For starters when you install LrC for the first time on Mac by default it places the Lightroom folder in Pictures. I don' know where it does this on a PC. The Lightroom folder contains the catalogue and all the other items it needs to run. All my files are stored on an external drive.

Over the last decade the main thing I have noticed with new users is thinking the files are the catalogue. They aren't. Your files are your files and can be treated the same as any software. LrC does not whisk your files off to some unknown location or create a duplicate set of files. You have total control of where you store you files. The catalogue is just a database that works on the sidelines that keeps a record of your adjustments. I never even think about the catalogue unless I'm talking about it in forums.

The only reason for importing files is so LrC (catalogue) can read the metadata and it knows where you store your files. You can instruct LrC to import from anywhere and move your files to where you want to store them. Personally I import off my desktop, edit from there and when I'm done I use LrC to move my files to the external drive where I store my files.

This is my folder structure when I open the library page. I set it up by year and in every year are folders are named by the event and date. Photos is my my external drive,

Now I open the Mac operating system (OS). LrC just mirrors where your files are stored. As you can see in LrC is missing years 2006 to 2010. I didn't start using LrC until 2011 and never imported those previous year so LrC does not know those files exist.

I can open Canon's DPP, DXO PL, C1 Pro, ON1, etc and I will see the exact same folder structure as I see on my OS that I see in LrC. They all mirror the OS.

 

[Only RF]

Here is another example. Using LrC created a new folder for 2025. I just right clicked on My Raw Collection and created the new folder.

When I opened the OS there it automatically created that folder.

 

[Only RF]

Sorry for the bumps. Just trying to do this in steps. Here is a pretty good video.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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There is only thing to remember is the catalogue needs to know where your files are located. I do everything using LrC. Create and move folders. It is no more difficult than using the OC or another software and you never have to think about it, just editing. Going on 14 years and never a single issue with all the version and catalogue upgrades over those years.

Here is where the catalogue is located on my Mac. I go in here once a year to delete older catalogue versions after and upgrade. R6II test files is something I added for a preset I use.

 

[Only RF]

I keep on hearing good things about DXO so I thought I'd give it a go using a free trial for 14 days.
I already have Topaz Photo AI and online subscriptions to Photoshop and Lightroom.
I have used Photoshop for many years but I'm a dabbler and have never had a lesson on how to use it, I haven't even bothered following the demos that are provided free either. Typical bloke I don't "do" instructions unless it's the last chance saloon and I'm stuck.
Lightroom I have always been confused by so abandon it very quickly although I do see some features that are very useful like copying editing recipes and pasteing to another similar shot. You can do that in DPP too but at my age I don't have the time to wait /waste it's so slow in everything. Not only that it crashes on a regular basis too since I bought the R52
When Topaz was first launched I bought a copy and was mightily impressed, much easier to use and more effective than Photoshop de-noise so I tended to do my PP in Photoshop then de-noise the Jpeg at the end. When Topaz changed to Topaz AI I fell out of love very quickly. In my opinion it's awful. It tries to do everything and fails in my opinion. The de-noise is OK but it wants to sharpen everything too so you waste time telling it not to, or adjusting the levels.
Photoshop on the other hand has improved dramatically! Open a shot in camera RAW and the de-noise takes the same amount of time, perhaps slightly less, than DXO. There is a very easy layers option too so you can simply adjust the subject and background separately. I'm more than happy to keep this as my main post processing tool. I do still use DPP to view, rate and cull shots before dropping the ones I want to keep in to Photoshop.
Back to the actual de-noise function and as a simple test I took one particular shot of a Roseate Spoonbill, taken early one morning before the sun was up and created a jpeg with no alterations whatsoever. I then did the same with the raw file de-noising in Topaz and then doing the same in DXO. The produced DNG was then cropped in Photoshop and converted to Jpeg.
The shot was taken on my R5 with a n EF 500mm f4 lens. 1/1600sec, f4 and ISO3200.
The original RAW cropped and converted to Jpeg shows some noise
View attachment 34829
Topaz AI with the sharpen function cancelled
View attachment 34830
DXO then PS to crop and convert
View attachment 34831
and finally PS Camera RAW to de-noise and crop then open in PS to convert to jpeg.
View attachment 34832

I think DXO is slightly more pleasing but that can be easily achieved using PS so I won't be spending another £109 on downloading it.

I'm not sure you will be able to see much difference in the downloads on here, there isn't that much difference between the three anyway. However, in my opinion Adobe Photoshop is still the way to go no matter how many plaudits other programmes get. Yes you pay each and every month but you get a complete and usable programme and Lightroom is available in the same package. To those who are hanging on to their old stand alone Photoshop programmes you really are missing out. Today's version is far superior.

The files look good to me. This is a never ending debate between Adobe and DXO users. It's really a personal preference. When Adobe released Denoise AI, Jan Wegener said it was better than DeepPrime. When DXO released DeepPrime XD2s Jan said it was better than Abode.

Some prefer the more natural look of Adobe, others the look of DXO. DXO changed the algorithms with DeepPrime XD2s and made a good improvement. Looking at a full image sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference. Competing companies leap frogging over each other is good for all of us.

No two files are alike. Several reviewers said that if you have both Adobe and DXO use what works best for you. If you only have Adobe then you may want to consider saving your money.

 

[Dave Williams]

The files look good to me. This is a never ending debate between Adobe and DXO users. It's really a personal preference. When Adobe released Denoise AI, Jan Wegener said it was better than DeepPrime. When DXO released DeepPrime XD2s Jan said it was better than Abode.

Some prefer the more natural look of Adobe, others the look of DXO. DXO changed the algorithms with DeepPrime XD2s and made a good improvement. Looking at a full image sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference. Competing companies leap frogging over each other is good for all of us.

No two files are alike. Several reviewers said that if you have both Adobe and DXO use what works best for you. If you only have Adobe then you may want to consider saving your money.

That was really my point, it's not a lot but I feel I don't need DXO . I bought the stand alone Topaz which is now redundant and I guess DXO would soon go the same way.( I fancied a Sony A1 for ages but no longer...the grass is greener syndrome!)

As for Lightroom, yes, it's probably the filing and cataloguing that puts me off straight away. I download camera cards straight on to my Mac and view and cull using DPP. What's left gets filed on a portable external hard drive. I guess that's the root of my filing problem, I have lots of them and keep on buying a new one for my next travel adventure. I should have just bought a single external hard drive with lots of storage on a long time ago but as we know, the cost and size of hard drives has changed considerably but it works for me. Actually using Lightroom to process files isn't that dissimilar to Camera RAW and Photoshop, however I have used it for so long I know where the tools I use are so it's a case of it's not broken so why fix it!
I will have a play with Lightroom again. I know many, possibly the majority, favour it.
Anyway, thanks for your input, it's appreciated. cheers Dave

 

[Only RF]

That was really my point, it's not a lot but I feel I don't need DXO . I bought the stand alone Topaz which is now redundant and I guess DXO would soon go the same way.( I fancied a Sony A1 for ages but no longer...the grass is greener syndrome!)

As for Lightroom, yes, it's probably the filing and cataloguing that puts me off straight away. I download camera cards straight on to my Mac and view and cull using DPP. What's left gets filed on a portable external hard drive. I guess that's the root of my filing problem, I have lots of them and keep on buying a new one for my next travel adventure. I should have just bought a single external hard drive with lots of storage on a long time ago but as we know, the cost and size of hard drives has changed considerably but it works for me. Actually using Lightroom to process files isn't that dissimilar to Camera RAW and Photoshop, however I have used it for so long I know where the tools I use are so it's a case of it's not broken so why fix it!
I will have a play with Lightroom again. I know many, possibly the majority, favour it.
Anyway, thanks for your input, it's appreciated. cheers Dave

NP. It's not for everyone but I thought I'd give it a shot. Once you get past that first hurtle it's pretty basic. Only thing you have do is make sure LrC knows where your files are located. After that there is nothing to it.

I do the same. I always pre-cull my files using DPP - Quick Check - Full Screen to get rid of unwanted files first. I'm just about to start that now.

I created a folder on my desktop based on today's outing, plugged the card in, accessed the files using DPP, selected all the files and dragged them to that folder. After I finish this post I'll cull that folder using DPP. Once done I'll drag that folder into LrC. After it imports I'll leave that folder on the desktop to do my main editing. After that is done, using the LrC Library page I'll drag that folder to my external drive. I can still edit later (which I usually do) when the files are on the external drive.

 

[Only RF]

So basically. The only reason for steps 3 and 4 is just in case I delete something, etc. Files are still on the card. Also culling is faster on my OS than off the card.

1. Create new folder on desktop and name based on event
2. Plug card in
3. Open DPP, select all and drag files to new folder
4. Pre-Cull files off new folder
5. Import new folder into LrC
6. Edit
7. Drag folder to external drive

You can skip step 6, drag the folder to the external drive and edit from there. I've done that as well.

 

[esheato]

I like the DXO and PS versions best.

I’m a DXO user and love the ease of use. I took one look at the Topaz program and noped out. I have plenty of other program with buttons, switches, sliders galore and I needed a click and done noise reduction solution. As far as usage, I apply NR to every single image that gets post processing treatment. It’s quick, painless and makes a difference, IMO, so why not? In fact, I took this today, and used DXO on it.

 

[MSH411]

I like the DXO and PS versions best.

I’m a DXO user and love the ease of use. I took one look at the Topaz program and noped out. I have plenty of other program with buttons, switches, sliders galore and I needed a click and done noise reduction solution. As far as usage, I apply NR to every single image that gets post processing treatment. It’s quick, painless and makes a difference, IMO, so why not? In fact, I took this today, and used DXO on it.

View attachment 34871

I used to be a fan of Topaz but they lost there way, the core sharpen and denoise used to be great. I use PS and DXO now and have almost completely moved away from Topaz, used to be great.

 

[Only RF]

I don't care what others use. Whatever works for you is a good thing. Just in case others reading this thread think Adobe is difficult for some reason, it's not. I only choose to import from my desktop, work from it and when done drag that folder to my external storage because that works for me. I could set up my import page to move the files off my card and move them to their final destination. I would just have to open a file and edit, like any other program. Editing is as easy as DXO or any other developer.

I have Import Presets that applies Auto and another that applies Auto and Adaptive ISO preset. Auto which is AI based and called Sensei analyses the file/s and applies the basic edits so that saves time. I can edit a file in seconds if I need to.

Adaptive ISO preset is someting a user creates. You use a low ISO file like 100 and a high like 12800 or whatever you like. You set noise reduce reduction for the 100 ISO file and for the 12800. You can also set any other personal tweaks else you want in that preset. I can import hundreds of files and each one will be analysed and noise reduction will be scaled to each file. For example 100 = 10 NR. 12800 = 60 NR. A 6400 ISO file would automatically get about 30 NR. I once shot a charity and edited about 500 RAW files in less than 1 ½ hours.

I also apply Adobe Denoise AI to every file I post because it also includes RAW Details which is an enhancement. This is also from last night.

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