Back Button extended functions

[Frank Moodey]

Hi Everyone.

I am a new member of this forum and looking forward to sharing images and ideas.

Over the past couple of weeks, I have done extensive research about Back Buttons. Very quickly I discovered that there is more to them than just focusing. Are you aware that you can override the AF settings and the Exposure settings. On top of that you do not have to remove the half press focus from the shutter button.

As a bonus you can tailor any of the “C” modes to use the Back Button differently.

Because the document is long and a Work in Progress, I am giving a link to it on Adobe Cloud.

Please let me know your thoughts and ideas. Also please respect that the document is Copyright 2024 Frank Moodey.



https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:f2decc3d-2ddf-4297-8c91-b0066c728ebc

 

[AntonLargiader]

For me, the most awesome find has been "Register/recall shooting func" which I wrote about extensively here (if a link to another forum is OK): Customization: Register/recall shooting func, hidden gem!

Your link didn't work for me.

 

[AntonLargiader]

OK, the link worked now. You really focus on the two traditional back buttons, but you're not limited to those. On both my R7 and my R3, I have register/recall mapped to the DOF Preview button on the front. I operate it with my right ring finger.

Also, the font changes randomly a few times in your write-up. There doesn't seem to be a reason for it, so it becomes a distraction when my brain tries to assign some significance to it.

The "can't override the override" bit doesn't seem to add any value. How would one try to do that anyway?

 

[Only RF]

Hello and welcome. This AF override method was developed by users and I have been evolving and tweaking it for a few years now. First I'll have to say that I'm pretty much very unconventional compared to some of the top birders who have videos, blogs, etc out there. It works for my shooting style but may not for others.

First of I shot with Metering and AF on the shutter button for 5 years with my 7D. I decided to assign AF on the AF-ON for my 7D2. Since I never had an issue keeping the shutter button half pressed while shooting I decided to assign AF back to the Shutter Button for my ML cameras. Currently I have the R7 and R6II and I'll explain why I did that.

The new Eye Detect is amazing however it is a computer trying to figure out what I want and sometimes it has mind of its own. Most of the time it is does a great job but occasionally it will focus on something else. How do I get it to focus on what I want quickly?

I pretty much in Whole Area AF and Eye Detect on all of the time. I paid good money the gear so I let it do it's job first. When it fails then I step in to override it and tell it what to focus on. I don't need to get the face or eye of my subject to be in focus. Any part of the subject will do and when that happens I release the override and the eye snaps in.

My override is the AF-ON and I only use it when I need it. This frees my thumb to toggle it when I need it rather than lifting my thumb off one button to press the * button for example. If I assigned AF to the AF-ON button then I would need to keep it pressed all of time.

While most use Single or Spot AF for the override I use Zone AF with no Eye Detect. I just need the body in focus so the more AF points available the better. If zone has too much coverage, which is rare, I have assigned the * to toggle between 2 other AF modes. Single and Spot. If the subject is in a tight area, etc I'll toggle to Single and Spot AF. Override is still Zone AF.

Both my bodies offer Eye AF detect in Single and Spot so that helps. If they didn't I'd still use that method without Eye Detect.

I don't move the AF point/s around as that is too slow for my style of shooting. I press the AF-ON and physically move the camera to get the AF point/s on my subject, release the AF-ON and once the eye is in focus I recompose.

I also use Preview AF which is on page 3 of the AF menus. If I lift my finger past half way off the shutter button and AF stops it takes over and continues to focus. For the R5 that is on page 5 - Initial AF. Don't know about the other bodies.

My worst enemy is shutter speeds when for example shooting an air show between props and jets, perched and flying birds, etc. I've assigned the C1-3 to change for extreme SS changes. I sure miss my R5 because you could assign a button for that.

I know he spelled Dog incorrectly (you will see ) but I came across this a few weeks after I started to use my new method. I've been using a similar override method for years but I made a few tweaks for what I'm doing now. He calls it Triple AF.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Only RF]

A few yeas ago I started experimenting with AF override with my R5. I used these two birds sitting on posts. It didn't matter which AF mode I used. I'd even put Single AF on the post the bird was sitting on. As long as the bird was in reasonable focus and I released the AF-ON button the birds eye would snap in. I could go back and forth between these two birds all day. This was in the spring of 2022 with my R5 and got me going on this.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I haven't really settled on one way to select AF areas. On the 7D2 I would hit the grid button (AF point selection button, in Canon-speak) and then rock the lever to scroll through the AF areas. On RF bodies it seems that the default is to hit the grid button and then cycle through the AF areas with the M-Fn button. It seems that the selection function will stay on the M-Fn button until you hit grid again, even while you are shooting. That's not really a bad way to do it, if you don't regularly access other M-Fn functions. But I don't see any downside to using the grid button to directly cycle through the AF areas, so I might just switch to that. And either of those is easier than accessing it through in "Dial functions" on the M-Fn button (if you haven't reassigned it). Dial functions is really a powerful control if you don't have a lot of spare buttons - looking at you, R7 - but it's slow.

And if you're selecting your AF area with the grid button, you can take it out of Dial Functions and replace it with something else.

BTW Canon seems to use "AF area" and "AF point" interchangeably. In the menu, it's AF area but on the button it's AF point. Can anyone discern a useful distinction between those two terms in the Canon documentation?

 

[Only RF]

Not sure which button you referring to when you talk about AF point. AF Area is referring to activating all of the AF points in the entire EVF or sensor.

What part of the R7 do you find slow? Buffer or AF. The buffer is not ideal but I find AF very quick. I was in a blind and this bird came from the left and was pretty close so I only had seconds. With a 1.4 TC.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Not sure which button you referring to when you talk about AF point. AF Area is referring to activating all of the AF points in the entire EVF or sensor.

What part of the R7 do you find slow?

Canon uses "AF area" to refer to the AF point pattern: Spot AF, Single point AF, Expand AF, etc. One of those choices is "Whole area" which is what you describe. But the button that they describe which selects from these different AF areas is called the AF point selector. In a way you are selecting the points, but they are really groupings of points, and Canon has already labeled those as areas, so why not use the same term? It just seems to be an inconsistency, but possibly someone sees something in that which I don't.

Selecting the AF area (or anything, really) from the Dial functions is slower than selecting it from a dedicated control. "Looking at you, R7" was about it having fewer controls and therefore my operation of it is more dependent on Dial functions. For instance, the R3 has dedicated controls for AF mode, drive mode, and ISO. The R7 has none of these so I access them through Dial functions.

 

[Frank Moodey]

OK, the link worked now. You really focus on the two traditional back buttons, but you're not limited to those. On both my R7 and my R3, I have register/recall mapped to the DOF Preview button on the front. I operate it with my right ring finger.

Also, the font changes randomly a few times in your write-up. There doesn't seem to be a reason for it, so it becomes a distraction when my brain tries to assign some significance to it.

The "can't override the override" bit doesn't seem to add any value. How would one try to do that anyway?

Hi Everyone.

I am a new member of this forum and looking forward to sharing images and ideas.

Over the past couple of weeks, I have done extensive research about Back Buttons. Very quickly I discovered that there is more to them than just focusing. Are you aware that you can override the AF settings and the Exposure settings. On top of that you do not have to remove the half press focus from the shutter button.

As a bonus you can tailor any of the “C” modes to use the Back Button differently.

Because the document is long and a Work in Progress, I am giving a link to it on Adobe Cloud.

Please let me know your thoughts and ideas. Also please respect that the document is Copyright 2024 Frank Moodey.



https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:f2decc3d-2ddf-4297-8c91-b0066c728ebc

When I wrote the article and posted it, the intent was to bring awareness to the feature and the options within it. I feel that a lot of users including myself are unaware of these features and potential power it can provide. I wish I knew about it last year when I was shooting a Motor Cross event. One moment there is a bike and rider flying through the air that requires a fast shutter speed. A moment later I want to do a pan shot that requires a slow shutter speed. This could have been achieved with the use of the two back buttons. Initial search results on Google were mainly about shifting focus from the Shutter to the AF ON button.

Yes, I focused on the two buttons on the back of the camera which is where the term Back Button most likely came from.

 

[AntonLargiader]

One moment there is a bike and rider flying through the air that requires a fast shutter speed. A moment later I want to do a pan shot that requires a slow shutter speed

Oh yeah, that is exactly what register/recall is all about! Hold a button, get a whole different camera. In fact, this thread is a real reminder for me to set my two cameras up the same way, or as close as possible. For me, R/R would be for a failsafe way to get a relatively static shot no matter how the camera is configured. It might be largely automatic. I ran into an issue with that last fall where my shutter and aperture (with Auto ISO) forced an overexposure with the R/R settings I had. I wasn't used to shooting in bright straight-on sunlight and I thought my settings were pretty forgiving. Not!

Now, what would be cool would be if we had the option to modify R/R settings on the fly, sort of like changes to a C mode can be retained. I just verified that this does not work. . And you cannot register a C mode, either. But you can set the camera up the way you want and then register that.

 

[Frank Moodey]

Oh yeah, that is exactly what register/recall is all about! Hold a button, get a whole different camera. In fact, this thread is a real reminder for me to set my two cameras up the same way, or as close as possible. For me, R/R would be for a failsafe way to get a relatively static shot no matter how the camera is configured. It might be largely automatic. I ran into an issue with that last fall where my shutter and aperture (with Auto ISO) forced an overexposure with the R/R settings I had. I wasn't used to shooting in bright straight-on sunlight and I thought my settings were pretty forgiving. Not!

Now, what would be cool would be if we had the option to modify R/R settings on the fly, sort of like changes to a C mode can be retained. I just verified that this does not work. . And you cannot register a C mode, either. But you can set the camera up the way you want and then register that.

On the R7 I can select C mode and then go into R/R make my settings and then register the C again. It then has you R/R settings.

 

[Only RF]

When I wrote the article and posted it, the intent was to bring awareness to the feature and the options within it. I feel that a lot of users including myself are unaware of these features and potential power it can provide. I wish I knew about it last year when I was shooting a Motor Cross event. One moment there is a bike and rider flying through the air that requires a fast shutter speed. A moment later I want to do a pan shot that requires a slow shutter speed. This could have been achieved with the use of the two back buttons. Initial search results on Google were mainly about shifting focus from the Shutter to the AF ON button.

Yes, I focused on the two buttons on the back of the camera which is where the term Back Button most likely came from.

You did a good job and yes there are people unaware.

 

[Frank Moodey]

Oh yeah, that is exactly what register/recall is all about! Hold a button, get a whole different camera. In fact, this thread is a real reminder for me to set my two cameras up the same way, or as close as possible. For me, R/R would be for a failsafe way to get a relatively static shot no matter how the camera is configured. It might be largely automatic. I ran into an issue with that last fall where my shutter and aperture (with Auto ISO) forced an overexposure with the R/R settings I had. I wasn't used to shooting in bright straight-on sunlight and I thought my settings were pretty forgiving. Not!

Now, what would be cool would be if we had the option to modify R/R settings on the fly, sort of like changes to a C mode can be retained. I just verified that this does not work. . And you cannot register a C mode, either. But you can set the camera up the way you want and then register that.

By the way, that is what I was referring to, when I said "you cannot override the overrides".

 

[AntonLargiader]

On the R7 I can select C mode and then go into R/R make my settings and then register the C again. It then has you R/R settings.

What I was referring to is that when you register the settings you can specify P, Av, M, or Tv mode (on the R3, not on the R7) but you cannot specify one of the C modes. The distinction being that you can easily alter a C mode and then could recall it with R/R (but you can't). As it is, you have to go into the menu to alter what is registered.

But yes, you can probably do a hybrid process by modifying a C mode and then basically uploading that to your R/R. It's a little more work than just recalling a current C mode, but easier than building it all in the Customize buttons function. It makes a lot of sense, really, to have those preferred alternate settings in a C mode. I might try that, just to see if it actually works or if Canon missed something in the programming.

I suppose it sort of makes sense that you can't recall a C mode. It's called a mode, and you select it like a mode, but it's not really a mode like M or Av. It's a complete configuration (including, I think, most of the menu settings).

 

[Only RF]

What I was referring to is that when you register the settings you can specify P, Av, M, or Tv mode (on the R3, not on the R7) but you cannot specify one of the C modes. The distinction being that you can easily alter a C mode and then could recall it with R/R (but you can't). As it is, you have to go into the menu to alter what is registered.

But yes, you can probably do a hybrid process by modifying a C mode and then basically uploading that to your R/R. It's a little more work than just recalling a current C mode, but easier than building it all in the Customize buttons function. It makes a lot of sense, really, to have those preferred alternate settings in a C mode. I might try that, just to see if it actually works or if Canon missed something in the programming.

I suppose it sort of makes sense that you can't recall a C mode. It's called a mode, and you select it like a mode, but it's not really a mode like M or Av. It's a complete configuration (including, I think, most of the menu settings).

I've never seen a way to do that. If you start with M mode then C1-3 are in M.

 

[Only RF]

A little off topic. I can map a button to change subject to detect on my R6II. Very handy at a location where you are flipping between people and animals or planes, etc. I sure wish my R7 had that option. I added that to the green menus. I might be able to do something different but I try to keep both cameras as consistent as a I can when it comes to mapping buttons.

 

[Frank Moodey]

I've never seen a way to do that. If you start with M mode then C1-3 are in M.

When I'm going to set up C mode I start by setting the camera to manual mode. I would set the camera to a general photograph setting, such as 1/100, f8, Auto ISO and a matrix focus area. Once that is done I would then select C1 and register those settings there. Now I would change to the C1 mode and then go in and set the back buttons as I want them, both the AF ON and the Asterisk button using Metering and AFStart or Register/recall . Both of these could have different settings. I do not use the register option that is available in the Register/recall menu. I would back out of the Back Button setting menus and then go to the menu where I can register C1 again. This would then retain all the settings that I've done within C1. This now gives you three shooting options, Shutter button only, AF ON and Astrick.

 

[Only RF]

When I'm going to set up C mode I start by setting the camera to manual mode. I would set the camera to a general photograph setting, such as 1/100, f8, Auto ISO and a matrix focus area. Once that is done I would then select C1 and register those settings there. Now I would change to the C1 mode and then go in and set the back buttons as I want them, both the AF ON and the Asterisk button using Metering and AFStart or Register/recall . Both of these could have different settings. I do not use the register option that is available in the Register/recall menu. I would back out of the Back Button setting menus and then go to the menu where I can register C1 again. This would then retain all the settings that I've done within C1. This now gives you three shooting options, Shutter button only, AF ON and Astrick.

Me to. M and C1-3 are in M but each mode has tweaks for the scene I'll be shooting. All my buttons are mapped the same way between those modes. I don't want to think very much when I'm in the field. I do that in my condo. As simple as possible for a simple person.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I've never seen a way to do that. If you start with M mode then C1-3 are in M.

I have little experience with C modes, but what Frank describes above is how I understand them to work. I think the only missing bit for this particular discussion is that once you have a properly configured C mode and are in it, you can probably save the relevant settings in R/R by going into Detail set and selecting "Use current settings" or whatever it's called. I haven't tried it, but it seems like it should work. You might still have to enable them all, I don't know.

A little off topic. I can map a button to change subject to detect on my R6II. Very handy at a location where you are flipping between people and animals or planes, etc. I sure wish my R7 had that option. I added that to the green menus. I might be able to do something different but I try to keep both cameras as consistent as a I can when it comes to mapping buttons.

I think I have read before about how that was a missed feature on the R7. I don't know of a way to get to it, but you can specify the subject to detect in the "Metering and AF start" and "Register/recall shooting func" items. Probably also the "Switch to registered AF func" but I haven't messed with that yet. Of course each of these eats up an additional button, which are in short supply.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I just tried the C mode thing and it worked. I set up C3 as Tv mode with a bunch of settings I'd never use and then went to customize the R/R function. When I selected "Register current settings" all of the settings from the C mode that I was in appeared, along with a confirmation to accept them. Basically it works exactly as one would expect it to.

So, you can develop the special settings to your heart's content in a C mode and upload a copy of that at any time to the R/R customization. As long as you stay on top of it, your button shortcut will put you in that C mode (at least, within the limits of those specific settings) at any moment.

If you want more of that C mode than R/R will store, you can (on the R3 and a few others, but not the R7) put Mode on the M-Fn button and quickly cycle through the modes that way. You can't add Mode to the Dial functions, you have to replace Dial functions with Mode.

EDIT: Link for that last bit: https://www.the-digital-picture.com...ncluding-Immediate-Access-to-30-fps-on-the-R3

 

[AntonLargiader]

One more thing I noticed yesterday while looking deeper into this: as powerful as it is, R/R does not have options to register:
- shutter mode (electronic vs. mechanical)
- drive mode (H+, etc)
- AF mode (but this can be set if you are configuring Metering and AF start)

FWIW I have worked around the first one in the past by assigning Silent shutter function to a button, but you get everything in that package whether you want it or not. Silent shooting enforces electronic shutter, no flash, no volume on any sounds, no AF assist beam, no shutter close on shutdown, etc. But this isn't really in the context of using R/R anyway; no overriding the override, right? So just FYI.

EDIT: substituted Canon's term "drive mode"