New to RF and need advice.

[Barry]

Hi. After 54 years of taking photographs as a hobby and pursuing my wildlife interests I finally thought it might be nice to try out a mirrorless camera. I shoot Canon of course. I own a 1DX mkIII, a 5D mk IV and a 7D mk II. All fantastic cameras that I will never pass on. The awaited DSLR replacement for the 7D never materialised as Canon has gone down the mirrorless route so I followed Canon Rumour until I discovered that an APS-C mirrorless was to become a reality. I got in the queue and pre-ordered a new R7 with an adapter as I have a number of L series lenses that I also will never part with. It arrived and I set it up to emulate the 7DmkII and gave it a go.......... disaster! This was November last year and I still don't seem to get the hang of it. There are a lot of things I really don't like about it in terms of construct, feel, control positions, the lack of the top display....it's a long list. I would like as much input as possible from users who have made a successful foray into the mirrorless domain, preferably with the R7 although any useful information regarding this new form of camera would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and kind regards
Barry

 

[Tim Mayo]

Welcome Barry and thank you for joining up here. Sorry to hear that your journey with the R7 hasn't been the smoothest so far. I own the R5 and love the feel of this camera in my hands, especially compared with my Sony mirrorless cameras. I did briefly hire an R7 but much preferred the feel and controls of my R5, so decided not to add the R7 to my gear bag. I just wish the R5 had pre-shooting as this was definitely my favourite feature of the R7 especially for taking shots of birds taking flight. Maybe if Canon come out with a battery grip this will help a little towards making the R7 feel better in your hands? I know some people are adapting the Canon BG-E2N Grip to fit the R7, there are some posts in our R7 Facebook Group.

 

[Barry]

Hi Timothy. Thanks for the encouragement!!! I have nothing to do with social media however so will not be using the face book page.
The whole point of the R7 was to have the front end magnification that an aps-c camera gives as I shoot wildlife and as they say "every little helps!" Having extra reach with a 400mm L series lens and 1.4x extender and the 1.6 mag. that you get from aps-c is very useful. With the 7DmkII I have a high hit rate. It seems that the R7 cannot match it as yet. I know some of it will be user error, but I have persisted with settings , tried AV, TV ,Program and full auto and still have a poor hit rate as yet. Changed ISO often too. Used every pre-set focus tracking and it doesn't keep up. I am better off turning the tracking off altogether. I have included the best image I have managed to score as yet. It's ok but I can and have done way better with the 7DmkII. Watch this space as they say.

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[Grahamk]

Hi Barry, welcome to the group. I haven't used an R7 but have just moved from an R6 to an R6 Mk2, which I thought would be a simple transition. However, I had trouble getting the focus to lock properly on my 24-240mm lens (which I hadn't previously used on the Mk2) after having had a successful first outing with my Mk2 + 100-500mm at a sports car event. The issue seems to have arisen from a particular combination of settings for metering mode, autofocus area, subject to detect option and whether Whole area tracking Servo AF was enabled (or some sub-set of these). I'm not sure which adjustment finally sorted the problem as i changed more than one at the same time (never a good idea to identify the cause of a problem). I never had this issue with my R6 Mk1, which may have been luck, but, as I recall, that camera did not have the same Whole area tracking Servo AF option. It's stating the obvious, but the newer R-series cameras with their multiple inter-related menu options are complicated things.

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

Hey Barry. I'm a wildlife shooter who came to Canon Mirrorless from Nikon where I primarily shot with a D500. So while I don't have the 7D experience I understand the appeal of cropped sensors.

I started with the R5 but snapped up the R7 when it was announced for much the same reason you did. I'm shooting with RF glass, and perhaps that's the difference, but I put the R5 down and shot with the R7 almost exclusively for 5-6 months after I got it and was very happy with the results. I found the eye tracking to be much better than what the R5 had, and I could get it in every focus mode without having to use back-button focus as a work around.

My main complaints about the R7 seem to be shared by most users:

• Focus stickiness is poor while shooting - 3 shots in focus, 2 soft, 2 more sharp
• Focus wanders with button half-pressed - it will lock for 3-5 seconds and suddenly switch to a fore/background object
• Buffer is WAY too small - forces shooting in CRAW and in shorter bursts
• Sensor is old tech and noise is harder to deal with
• Mechanical shutter is stupid loud

That said, I have a bunch of photos from over last summer that I am thrilled with. It performs extremely well with the 100-500mm RF. Not as well with a 1.4x TC attached, but an effective 800mm at the long end without it means I'm not worried about it. I don't really mess with the AF options, I rely on the animal eye tracking and selecting the right focus area for the situation. I would dive deep into that. Wild Alaska and Whistling Wings Photography have done some videos on the R7 focusing system. Perhaps check them out?

Here are a few shots from the R7/100-500mm combo...

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[Barry]

Hi Jake. Thanks for the insight. I am finding the camera a little less frustrating now as I have been persisting with the settings, largely by switching off most of them off! I still don't like the tracking features so don't use them. Having been used to Canon for 20 years or so, I expected the RF stuff to be really a step up from DSLR and as yet I am not convinced. Have not got an R5 as my 5Dmk IV is totally fine so won't need a full frame RF camera. I assume they are good?
I went out today with the R7 connected to my EF glass via the adaptor. I have the 400mm f2.8 prime lens and a 1.4X extender. The lens is superb as its an L series and has been amazing with my 7Dmk2. The light was poor so I didn't expect much. Was very pleased with the results overall. The camera can produce good results but its still a bit hit and miss so I will practice some more. See what you think of the images below.

 

[Barry]

Hi Barry, welcome to the group. I haven't used an R7 but have just moved from an R6 to an R6 Mk2, which I thought would be a simple transition. However, I had trouble getting the focus to lock properly on my 24-240mm lens (which I hadn't previously used on the Mk2) after having had a successful first outing with my Mk2 + 100-500mm at a sports car event. The issue seems to have arisen from a particular combination of settings for metering mode, autofocus area, subject to detect option and whether Whole area tracking Servo AF was enabled (or some sub-set of these). I'm not sure which adjustment finally sorted the problem as i changed more than one at the same time (never a good idea to identify the cause of a problem). I never had this issue with my R6 Mk1, which may have been luck, but, as I recall, that camera did not have the same Whole area tracking Servo AF option. It's stating the obvious, but the newer R-series cameras with their multiple inter-related menu options are complicated things.

Hi Graham. Its interesting what you have to say about the R6. Already they have updated it to a mk2 which tells me there was a need for improvement. I hope the R7 doesn't go the same way. The R7 is a cheaper camera but so was the 7Dmk2 and it never let me down. I am still trying with the R7 and am sure it will get better once I get round the irrelevant bits and use the settings that work for me.

 

[Barry]

There has just been a firmware upgrade for the R7. Hope this may change things a little

 

[Barry]

So---this firmware update has frozen my R7. I have had to reset the camera a couple of times and then replace all the settings I use regularly as the update cancelled everything. This morning I missed several opportunities for shooting wildlife as the autofocus gave up altogether until I "turned it off and then turned it back on again" What a joke. This camera (my own R7) is rubbish!!!!!

Or have I just got a total dud???

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

"Your Mileage May Vary" is a rule of thumb for any product. There are so many things that can cause what you've experienced that have absolutely nothing to do with the camera - the card (brand/quality/condition), the reader, the computer you used to download the firmware and copy it to the card... and the camera itself can be at issue. Given all that, I can neither judge yours as a dud even as I disagree heartily with the assessment that "the camera" (the R7) is rubbish.

Regardless, I'm sorry you're dealing with what you're dealing with.

 

[Barry]

Hi Jake. I am not saying that th R7 idea is a bad one nor that other R7 s out there are no good. The one I have is new. Its done 300 shots, been updated etc. All my gear is L series. I have a new SanDisk card as recommended by everyone that reviewed the R7. Iown a high end laptop and never use cheap tech. My point was and I quote " this camera is rubbish" and I was referring to the one I have. Its going back to Canon for testing as I believe it has an electronic glitch that needs addressing. On the occasions when it worked properly it was an adequate tool but as it cost about the same as a 7DmkII it really needed to be as well built and user friendly as that, which in my view it isn't.

 

[Chris Summers]

Hi Barry,

I also shot with Canon DSLRs for several years going back to the 20D and upgraded periodically on newer models. While still shooting with those cameras I made the transition to mirrorless with the then, new Canon M system. Still own and shoot with the M5 and have a few EF-M lenses, it's a nice camera for travel when you need to pack light. The R had been out for a bit over a year and rumors of the R5 were happening so the R price dropped. I opted to sell my 5Ds which I mostly used for landscapes and portraits due to it's high resolution sensor. I got the R and overall was happy with it but my sports and wildlife camera was the 7D MkII. I really couldn't decide on the R7 when it was released as it was getting mixed reviews. Some birders loved it and some didn't and almost everyone complained about the small size and no battery grip which I have always used. With long lenses I just feel it balances better and also like the vertical controls.

I finally just decided to give it a go and got the R7. It had a bit of a learning curve for me, even though I was shooting with the Canon R but the subject tracking and eye detection took me awhile to get better at using. I came to the realization that the R7 was not nearly as groundbreaking as the 7D MkII had been when it was released. But while there were things I didn't like I had to consider the things I did like. I like the higher burst rate and overall like the subject tracking, especially for flying birds or kids playing soccer (football) I guess I felt I had to take the good with the bad.

I have found that the more I shoot with it the better I get with my keeper ration of good shots. The price I paid for the R7 wasn't too different than the 7D MkII body when I got it so I figure in a year or 2 if they come out with a much improved version of the R7 I probably will upgrade.

Usually I sell my used gear that I have upgraded from but I decided to keep the 7D MkII as a backup or maybe for one of my grandkids if they are interested in it. The resale value isn't that good here, I could only get $300 or so for it so why not just keep it.

 

[Barry]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the input. My suspicions about my own R7 may be true as it has now developed another error. Sometimes on start up it is amazingly quick to focus and works fine. However it will just freeze and refuse to focus my 400mm lenses on other occasions. As its an intermittent fault along with the other bad behaviours I can only assume it has communication problems internally. I will have it checked out professionally in case it is a faulty camera and will need replacing. I agree with everyone that it has good features as when its working the image quality is rather pleasing for an aps-c sensor. I have read about the R5 and R6 too and get the impression that occasionally they have had faults too, but generally they are a step up from a DSLR. The burst rate on the R& is fine if you need it but I have never been one to shoot multiple images to get one good one , though I can appreciate that there will be times when it is essential. I suppose its a hark back to only having 36 exposures available on a roll. One thing I will never like is the viewfinder. It would need to be millions of pixels better and steadier before I would be happy with it. Long live mirrors! I intend to sort this camera out and give it a proper test once its sorted. In the meantime I have my dslr's that have never been at fault. You are right that the used values are low now as the market is pushing the mirrorless route. Cynic that I am I just think its a technology being forced on us for profit before its really up to scratch. We will see.

 

[Grahamk]

Picking up on Barry's EVF point, I took a little while to get used to it on my original R6 when moving from a DSLR and it was a bit nerve racking initially to find it entirely white or entirely black due to the settings being at one extreme or the other for some reason. However I now find it very useful - I have had no problems with steadiness in the EVF on either my Mk1 or Mk2 R6s.

 

[Barry]

Still no success with this camera (R7) . I have a adapter, a 1.4x extender III and a 100mm-400mm IS mk3 zoom lens (L series EF) that are all supposed to work together but they don't seem to gel . I find the touch screen totally annoying as its too sensitive even on standard so I have to turn it off. Pointless really when you need it active to be able to change settings etc in a hurry. It also reacts to the static in my fingers by flicking itself off before I even get to touch the controls. I have a 5D mk 4 and a 1DX mk III that have touch screens but they have never done anything this stupid. I really do not like this camera so far. It has one saving grace in that it has a high pixel resolution so that when it does focus the image is a good one, but I took 150 images this morning of birds on a feeder in my garden , some with single shot, some with silent continuous, high speed+, etc to test out the shutter modes and servo/single shot, and other settings like Av and Tv and automatic and changing the f.stop and ISO. I did this on a stable platform of a quality tripod at 30 feet range. Result was 150 blurred images. I find it hard to believe that Canon is being untruthful when they say that EF kit works properly with the adapter but it seems possible that my R7 does not like it. With my 7DmkII I can do this hand held!!!
I have been through a long cycle of testing the settings in all the shooting modes I use with my EF kit, on the R7 ,and I am very disappointed with the poor performance so far.

 

[GaryM]

Send it in to canon for warranty repair or replacement. I have a similar background and have very few issues with mine, other than buffer issues mostly on high speed electronic shutter usage. Canon has always been very prompt and generally will pay your shipping, etc. What you are experiencing is not the norm. I did have error lockups, code 80? At first but that was from a 3rd party battery, which I now limit to mr 5D4. I upgraded firmware to 1.3 with no issues.

I feel badly for all the frustration you are going through, but give their service and support a try. It really is a remarkable camera with much of the old EF-L glass. I hate to even say this, but make sure your ibis is actually turned on and working. Even on the EF lens where applicable. Good luck with whatever you do.

Gary

 

[Barry]

Thanks Gary and sorry for the delay in responding. I have made some progress with the R7 by setting it up exactly as I did the 7D. After turning off the touch screen it seems to be behaving itself now. More from me when I have settled with it. I spoke to Canon repair shop in Stoke on Trent (UK) and they said it was unusual too.

 

[Barry]

Unlearn what I have learned???? What a pointless remark that is. I thought it was all about taking fantastic images, not playing about with high tech garbage that gets in the way. If a camera will just do what it is supposed to do without the need for a mass of supposedly innovative technology to assist the user, then it would be useful. For example:- it needs a good ISO range, good shutter speed range, fast and accurate focussing, the ability to prioritise shutter or aperture and be accurate with the light metering. The rest is up to the user to be good at what they do and compose the best images possible. Beyond that its a waste of time and technology. The post processing takes care of any minor glitches that occur. If one screws up and gets no good shots, well! Isn't that just part of the learning curve with any camera.
While I respect the use of gadgetry , on the whole most of it is pointless and I feel we are being forced along a path that we don't really need to follow. I find my R7 more of an irritation than of use, but I am still learning how to make the best of it. Time will tell.

 

[Barry]

Appreciate the comments. You too enjoy your Rseries.

 

[Barry]

Just been reading about the

Canon RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1L IS USM Lens​

and it says that this lens is compatible with the R7 with a footnote saying that it will have a 1.6 crop factor. There is also an RF extender 1.4x available.
Can anyone tell me if this combination will result in a loss of autofocus and would I be better with a 400mm prime lens instead.
Reason for asking is that with the EF system a 100-400mm lens and 1.4x extender maintains autofocus and if I were to go RF lenses with the R7 what would be the best combination. Its for wildlife mainly and my 7DmkII is getting old.

 

[YangMills]

A 500mm f/7.1 on an R7 with a 1.4x extender will be the equivalent of 1120mm at f/16 on full frame for noise and DoF. The R7 will autofocus.

 

[Only RF]

Yes it will

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[Barry]

Cheers Guys - thought it might but worth asking first.

 

[Mettadas]

Hi. After 54 years of taking photographs as a hobby and pursuing my wildlife interests I finally thought it might be nice to try out a mirrorless camera. I shoot Canon of course. I own a 1DX mkIII, a 5D mk IV and a 7D mk II. All fantastic cameras that I will never pass on. The awaited DSLR replacement for the 7D never materialised as Canon has gone down the mirrorless route so I followed Canon Rumour until I discovered that an APS-C mirrorless was to become a reality. I got in the queue and pre-ordered a new R7 with an adapter as I have a number of L series lenses that I also will never part with. It arrived and I set it up to emulate the 7DmkII and gave it a go.......... disaster! This was November last year and I still don't seem to get the hang of it. There are a lot of things I really don't like about it in terms of construct, feel, control positions, the lack of the top display....it's a long list. I would like as much input as possible from users who have made a successful foray into the mirrorless domain, preferably with the R7 although any useful information regarding this new form of camera would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and kind regards
Barry

Hi Barry. I've come to Canon mirrorless after decades using Nikon DSLRs. It's quite a change. I found this third party e-book to be very helpful:

EOS shop | photography books, courses & camera accessories

Accelerate your learning and enhance your EOS photography with our unique and carefully curated collection of resources and accessories for your Canon camera. Visit the EOS shop.

www.eos-magazine.com

Frank.

 

[Grahamk]

Apart from the R7 guide (written by Nina Bailey) found at the link in Mettadas’ post above, Nina Bailey has written guides to a number of Canon cameras and other books on various aspects of photography. They can be found here: https://www.eos-magazine-shop.com/eos-ebook-reprints-c102x3335953