Lightroom Classic Imports

[MrSparks999]

Hi All

Been using Photoshop for a while, but never used LR Classic. Now looking to add this to my workflow to make cataloging easier. So my question is this. Should i be converting to DNG on import or not? What are the advantages/disadvantages of converting as opposed to just copying. Any advice regarding Importing would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PKM-UK]

Hi Mark,

Like many things in life, 'raw vs DNG' is both simple and complicated at the same time (and subject to regular debate).

Both formats are considered to be 'raw files'. A raw file is untouched data from the camera, a DNG file is Adobe's creation - based on the TIFF format.

A DNG will (usually) be smaller than a raw file by virtue of stripping out certain meta data (if you choose to embed the raw file, the DNG will be bigger!).

Once you convert to DNG (assuming you choose to delete the original raw file - and not embed it in the DNG) you can't get back to where you started.

Some background blurb can be found - Here, Here and Here.


It comes down to personal preference. My choice is to (usually) keep the full raw file (plus *.xmp) along with the final jpg and ditch anything in-between (i.e. interim DNG's/ TIFF's) - unless there is a particular workflow I need for future reference/ use. (I don't retain the raw files for 'throw-away' images).

Note, even here things are usually not entirely straightforward - e.g. I may well 'pass the raw file' from LrC to DxO PhotoLab/ Topaz Photo AI (using their respective plug-ins), and/ or send it across to PS and they will export back a processed DNG/ TIFF/ jpg - the original raw file remaining untouched in LrC.

In terms of import advice, I always get LrC to rename the file (Initials/ Camera '-' File Number '-' YYMMDD, e.g. PR5-xxxx-240112.CR3) apply an Import Preset based on the camera and also some very simple Metadata (basically (c) info). Keywording is recommended, e.g. finding/ filtering specific images.

My take of course - others may well differ (and they wouldn't be wrong, as everyone will have their own workflow), so make of this what you will.

Finally, enjoy LrC! - Some tips and tricks can be found Here and some YouTube tutorial/ inspiration recommendations can be found Here.

Phil

 

[hedleyw]

Hi All

Been using Photoshop for a while, but never used LR Classic. Now looking to add this to my workflow to make cataloging easier. So my question is this. Should i be converting to DNG on import or not? What are the advantages/disadvantages of converting as opposed to just copying. Any advice regarding Importing would be greatly appreciated.

Are you shooting in the CRAW format? Assuming that you are, you will see approximately a doubling of file size by converting to dng for no benefit that I can think of. CRAW is an excellent format choice over RAW for the vast majority of photographers, most use it exclusively to save card and disk space.

 

[PKM-UK]

Are you shooting in the CRAW format? Assuming that you are, you will see approximately a doubling of file size by converting to dng for no benefit that I can think of. CRAW is an excellent format choice over RAW for the vast majority of photographers, most use it exclusively to save card and disk space.

Hi Hedley,

Good point - and a very worthy consideration. (I use CRAW some of the time).

Phil

 

[Jake Shoots Birds]

I did it at first at the recommendation of Scott Kelby. Then I joined a photography group that ran contests which required authentication against original files for winners. I was shooting Nikon and converting NEF to DNG on input and was disqualified in multiple contests because the DNG was not created in-camera and could therefore be subject to manipulation. I was pissed, but I get it.

It's the least of the reasons not to convert to DNG, but for me it's enough. The only real "advantage" I've heard about DNG is that it's a format recognized by multiple post-processing systems and you don't have to worry about system specific prejudices. When I was an early adopter of new Nikon bodies I found that I could use an external DNG converter to be able to process raw files in Lightroom before Adobe added the new body it to Camera Raw, so I would do the conversion for processing and keep the original file as well for competition. That's the only time I've converted since. You can read the opinions but I honestly have zero reasons other than the one just stated to convert.

 

[MrSparks999]

So from what i am reading the only real benefit is that it creates a slightly smaller file, and that this file is more compatible across different applications.
Before trying LR i had no issues moving RAW files between PS and TOPAZ products, which is pretty much all i use. My only reason for now using LR is for the ease of cataloging. So i think i will stick with RAW.

thanks for all the feedback.

 

[koenkooi]

So from what i am reading the only real benefit is that it creates a slightly smaller file,[...]

It will only be smaller for one of the 3 DNG modes. For lossy compressed DNGs it will be smaller, but it debayers the image and is as the name says, lossy. Linear DNGs will debayer the image and be 6 times bigger than a CRAW (think 200MB for R5 images). The remaining DNG mode doesn't debayer it, but gets rid of a lot of metadata, which will hamper tools like PureRAW and DPP4. It will still be be larger than a CRAW.

And on the export side you will notice that only Adobe tools can handle those DNGs, since the edits are encoded as metadata, which AFAIK only Adobe tools use.

 

[RedCobra]

The only time I convert to DNG is when I run the file through DxO PureRaw which returns a DNG (labeled DeepPrimeEX2D.DNG) to LrC. Then if i send to Topaz I get back a .TIFF. I keep the original also. I don't use cRAW so can't comment on that. So a final procecessed file may have 3 versions .CR3, .DNG, and a .TIFF.
So, after I cull pretty much all files go to DxO and comeback as .DNG. Lightroom Classic doesn't care, it's happy and catalogs all versions of the file.
Yeah....storage space......but I don't care about that. I have plenty.

 

[Only RF]

Yes stick to RAW. Converting to DNG just makes it more work. The most important thing you need to know is that LrC uses a catalogue system. Your files are not the catalogue. It is just a database in steroids that works on the sidelines. However it is like a library. If you borrow a book from a library, return it and bypass the librarian and put it on some random shelf how will they find it.

The catalogue is a powerful tool when managed properly and that is easy to do. Planning out how you want to set your file system up and the first few days you use it are important. Using LrC to manage your file system is the most efficient method because you have to worry about anything. If yo use the OS you have to remember to tell LrC that you moved, renamed, etc any files folders.

Also you only need one catalogue. There is no known limit to its size. Some like to create one for work and another for play but I would just use one and create root folders for this categories. 5 years from now you will be happy that you did that.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Here is my LrC folder structure. It is not independent. LrC does not create a separate set of files. It mirrors the OS.

Good timing as I just created a new 2024 folder. I used LrC to create it and as you can see it automatically created that folder in my Mac OS. Not a duplicate set of files. I just mirrors it.

 

[jcass]

I want to add two points to Only RF's sage counsel. First, watch the video and, like Only RF says, take the time right away to figure out your file strategy. It is painful to switch later down the road. Second, remember to have a backup strategy for your raw files. Lightroom will keep track of file info, meta-data, and edit history, but it you can't go back to 2015 (for example, or any other older imports) and redo edits without the original raw file.

 

[Only RF]

I want to add two points to Only RF's sage counsel. First, watch the video and, like Only RF says, take the time right away to figure out your file strategy. It is painful to switch later down the road. Second, remember to have a backup strategy for your raw files. Lightroom will keep track of file info, meta-data, and edit history, but it you can't go back to 2015 (for example, or any other older imports) and redo edits without the original raw file.

Good points. I should have said that importing files (which does not create a new set of files) has two functions. 1st it reads the files metadata, adds that to the catalogue database and builds previews. 2nd so it knows where the files are located. The user has complete control of where to import from and where to import to. Observe the upper left and right had corners of the import window.

I keep my files on an external drive that is backed daily up to another external drive using CCC. The LR folder that contains the catalogue is on my HD. I use a Mac so by default it places it in Pictures. Don't know about Windows. That location is where LrC backs up the catalogue to as well. My HD is backed up to a 3rd drive using Mac's Time Machine.

Here is the Catalogue and backup folder which LrC creates. The rest is LrC stuff I don't worry about. The circled item is a personal folder.

When you exit LrC make sure these two boxes are checked.

 

[koenkooi]

You can also instruct lightroom to stack the original CR3 with the DNG/TIFF/whatever you get from external tools. I put the edited version on top of the stack to keep the gallery view decluttered.
In the stacking menu you have an option to automatically stack by date, I used that when I imported a years worth of CR3 when I had the edited TIFFs (from DPP4) already in the catalog.

 

[RedCobra]

You can also instruct lightroom to stack the original CR3 with the DNG/TIFF/whatever you get from external tools. I put the edited version on top of the stack to keep the gallery view decluttered.
In the stacking menu you have an option to automatically stack by date, I used that when I imported a years worth of CR3 when I had the edited TIFFs (from DPP4) already in the catalog.

That's a great idea...thanks.

 

[jcass]

The link below is to a photo that I edited this past weekend based on the posts in this thread. I wanted to share this photo because I am particularly pleased with the result of Enhance. Unfortunately, I did not carefully track my workflow steps or options, and I deleted all the generated intermediate files from disk. I just wasn't expected to be this pleased with the result compared to the original.

The key info is that first, I used DxO DeepPrime to denoise with the option selected to open the resulting .DNG in Lightroom Classic. Denoise wasn't really necessary, but I've downloaded the trial DxO PureRaw 3 and I'm putting it through its paces. In Lightroom CC, I did all my normal edits. My last step - other than adding a vignette - was to use the menu option Photo -> Enhance, then exported the jpeg.

I had previously exported the jpeg without enhancing. That file size was about 2.8MB. There is a heavy crop on the original. After enhance, the file size of the exported jpeg grew to about 7MB. Unfortunately, I chose the option to overwrite the existing export file.

Hoverfly on Daisy I posted the link instead of upload the photo to bypass the downscaling on uploading photos.

P.S. From LCC, I also edited in PS Beta and generative AI to remove a piece of something from the center disk of the Daisy. PS did a great job. I can't even notice it. It was around 5:30 near the edge of the disc.

 

[Only RF]

The link below is to a photo that I edited this past weekend based on the posts in this thread. I wanted to share this photo because I am particularly pleased with the result of Enhance. Unfortunately, I did not carefully track my workflow steps or options, and I deleted all the generated intermediate files from disk. I just wasn't expected to be this pleased with the result compared to the original.

The key info is that first, I used DxO DeepPrime to denoise with the option selected to open the resulting .DNG in Lightroom Classic. Denoise wasn't really necessary, but I've downloaded the trial DxO PureRaw 3 and I'm putting it through its paces. In Lightroom CC, I did all my normal edits. My last step - other than adding a vignette - was to use the menu option Photo -> Enhance, then exported the jpeg.

I had previously exported the jpeg without enhancing. That file size was about 2.8MB. There is a heavy crop on the original. After enhance, the file size of the exported jpeg grew to about 7MB. Unfortunately, I chose the option to overwrite the existing export file.

Hoverfly on Daisy I posted the link instead of upload the photo to bypass the downscaling on uploading photos.

P.S. From LCC, I also edited in PS Beta and generative AI to remove a piece of something from the center disk of the Daisy. PS did a great job. I can't even notice it. It was around 5:30 near the edge of the disc.

Did you purchase PureRaw 3?

 

[jcass]

Did you purchase PureRaw 3?

Still doing the trial and undecided. The difference is hard to tell for me. So, I don't know if it is worth it. I think the bigger difference is Supersizing the photo, but you you have to convert to another file type if you denoise too.

• Open in Lightroom CC
• Export to DxO PureRaw 3, denoise with DeepPRIME (XD) and save back to LRC
• Edit in Photoshop to remove some twigs and save back to LCC at a TIFF
• Apply normal edits
• Photo>Enhance>Supersize
• Export to jpeg

 

[Only RF]

Still doing the trial and undecided. The difference is hard to tell for me. So, I don't know if it is worth it. I think the bigger difference is Supersizing the photo, but you you have to convert to another file type if you denoise too.

• Open in Lightroom CC
• Export to DxO PureRaw 3, denoise with DeepPRIME (XD) and save back to LRC
• Edit in Photoshop to remove some twigs and save back to LCC at a TIFF
• Apply normal edits
• Photo>Enhance>Supersize
• Export to jpeg

I'd wait. PureRaw upgrade cycle is March to March. PureRaw 4 will be released in March. Last year PureRaw 3 was released on the 15th but I can't say for sure it will be the same day this year. If you purchase within 30 days of the upgrade you will get it. One day out and you won't so you will have to pay to get the upgrade. Some say you can use the trial as an overlap but based on when you started I don't think that will work for you.

 

[RedCobra]

I'd wait. PureRaw upgrade cycle is March to March. PureRaw 4 will be released in March. Last year PureRaw 3 was released on the 15th but I can't say for sure it will be the same day this year. If you purchase within 30 days of the upgrade you will get it. One day out and you won't so you will have to pay to get the upgrade. Some say you can use the trial as an overlap but based on when you started I don't think that will work for you.

Yes you should wait. I can't tell you how I know, but PR4 will be a big update from PR3.

 

[jcass]

I'd wait. PureRaw upgrade cycle is March to March. PureRaw 4 will be released in March. Last year PureRaw 3 was released on the 15th but I can't say for sure it will be the same day this year. If you purchase within 30 days of the upgrade you will get it. One day out and you won't so you will have to pay to get the upgrade. Some say you can use the trial as an overlap but based on when you started I don't think that will work for you.

Yes you should wait. I can't tell you how I know, but PR4 will be a big update from PR3.

Thanks to you both of you for the heads up. Much appreciated.

 

[Only RF]

Thanks to you both of you for the heads up. Much appreciated.

Many years ago I learned that hard way.