Canon R7 Canon R7 AF issues - The latest Update

[ctitanic]

Well, here is a video explaining the latest updates on this topic with an input from Canon.

This video probably explains why I never had the issue.

I only use burst in H with mechanical shutter, I'm from the old guard that feels that to get 1 shot from 100s in a burst is like in some way cheating. I feel more satisfaction when I get a perfect shot pulling trigger just one time.

 

[ctitanic]

Considering that this topic comes back from time to time we may need to have it pined.

 

[Barry]

A fascinating video that I agree with more or less fully. I find the same problem of focus shift with a macro lens too. Duade makes a few valid points regarding settings and contrast conditions that I have found the same problems with. I have tried various shooting speeds and have had similar results. Its interesting that Canon admits to limitations. That is rare anywhere in the world. My macro lens stops down to F2.8 to allow for lower light conditions but its not an advantage when the camera autofocus cannot keep up. A downside is that I have to take lots of images to get one or two that are sharp. Even static subjects like flower centres are out of focus at times. I tried most of the variations in frame rates and have not yet found a satisfactory solution. Its too hit and miss to be reliable. I wonder if this is something that Canon will address in the future either with a firmware update or a mark 2 version of the R7 itself with improved capability?

 

[ctitanic]

A downside is that I have to take lots of images to get one or two that are sharp.

Well, like I said, I use single shot (pushing the shutter two times) or Low speed continues. My keeper rate is more than 95%. So probably the secret is to take "lots of less images"

I know that this is easy to say and hard to do because most of the wildlife photographer are used to browse 1000 of pictures to pick one.

 

[ctitanic]

To me the value of this video is that Canon came out saying that it's a limitation and that knowing the limitation (which like mentioned in the video other manufactures just restrict you from using high shutter speed) you can adjust your habits (or bad habits) to increase your keeper rate.
One more thing, besides this known scenario, I think that there other cases where AF has proven to be faulty.

 

[Barry]

Well, like I said, I use single shot (pushing the shutter two times) or Low speed continues. My keeper rate is more than 95%. So probably the secret is to take "lots of less images"

I know that this is easy to say and hard to do because most of the wildlife photographer are used to browse 1000 of pictures to pick one.

Agreed. I didn't mention that I use single shot more often than not.Trying to follow an insect even a slow one isn't always that simple as they go out of frame quite erratically.

 

[ctitanic]

Trying to follow an insect even a slow one isn't always that simple as they go out of frame quite erratically.

Agree. But the satisfaction when you get the shot is just unique and immense.

 

[Ferenc MÓGOR]

Saw the video even though I don't have the R7 but the R6 MK1 where the manual clearly states everything we need to know under the section: "Shooting conditions that make focusing difficult". Probably there is no need to e-mail Canon prior to reading the manual. Nothing is perfect, right? Just my two cents!

 

[Only RF]

That warning is cut and paste for both the R7 and R6II and I would expect the R3 as well if I looked it up. Difference is that the R3 is 5 times as much but has far more processing speed. I guess he really noticed it with the R7 more than his other bodies. Questions elsewhere is why have 30 fps if the system can't handle it. His first video was leaning more towards shutter shock. He was as surprised with how loud and and how much the shutter vibrates. So was I.

 

[Barry]

Saw the video even though I don't have the R7 but the R6 MK1 where the manual clearly states everything we need to know under the section: "Shooting conditions that make focusing difficult". Probably there is no need to e-mail Canon prior to reading the manual. Nothing is perfect, right? Just my two cents!

Havent found a reference to this in the R7 manual yet. Maybe we should just guess?

 

[Ferenc MÓGOR]

IMHO, system had handle it under given circumstances stipulated in the manual. Anything wrong with that? I don't think so.

Havent found a reference to this in the R7 manual yet. Maybe we should just guess?

Its on page 469.

 

[Barry]

Thanks. Its what the guy in the video from Australia was saying too. Interesting how EF cameras dont seem to have this problem though!

 

[Only RF]

Thanks. Its what the guy in the video from Australia was saying too. Interesting how EF cameras dont seem to have this problem though!

My 7D and 7D2 did not shoot at 30 fps.

 

[Barry]

And your point is? I don't want or need 30fps so it's an irrelevant comparison for me. My concern is focusing anyway. I have just spent 3 hours messing with the R7 again, following all the good advice and pointers from fellow forum members. Hit rate still varies greatly but when on target its superb images all round. As I said before it's frustrating and I cannot trust the camera for any important shooting.

 

[Only RF]

And your point is? I don't want or need 30fps so it's an irrelevant comparison for me. My concern is focusing anyway. I have just spent 3 hours messing with the R7 again, following all the good advice and pointers from fellow forum members. Hit rate still varies greatly but when on target its superb images all round. As I said before it's frustrating and I cannot trust the camera for any important shooting.

My points that if as Duade said if you go from H+ to H the keeper rate increases immensely. A problem has been identified so at least people are aware and can make adjustments. It's not something they are doing wrong which can be very frustrating when trouble shooting. It's obviously not ideal but I have no obligations and I always come home with something to post, even at H+. If I had commitments and could not trust a tool I'd likely consider getting rid of it or as you said not use it. I'm not in that situation so I'll ride it out for now. Your situation is different.

 

[Barry]

Thanks. I appreciate your comments. You have a point. I didn't use it for serious work because I am still getting used to it. It was the crop factor that was my driver here as it ought to be the natural replacement for the 7Dmk2. That camera is the one I use for wildlife. Hopefully in time Canon can improve an apsc camera as a proper successor.

 

[RedCobra]

Well, I have an interesting experience coming up.

Going to Africa to shoot wildlife for 3 weeks. I am taking a friend who is a novice photographer and just bought a R7 with the kit RF-S 18-150 (I think). I am loaning her my RF 100-500 as well. I am taking an OM Systems M43 OM-1 with the Oly big white (150-400 f/4.5 +1.25 TC) as well as my Canon R5 with the RF 70-200 f/2.8 and my RF 24-70 f/2.8.
It's a Pangolin Photo tour (at first) and she will have one of the Photo Guides to assist her in learning to shoot wildlife, and setting up the camera. (I'll help too, but have not been able to so far other than by email and text as we live in different states.) I had advised a R6 but budget made her get the R7 and people at BHPhoto told her the extra reach of the R7 would be an advantage in Africa.

It's going to be interesting to see how the OM-1, R7, and R5 compare. (I am sure I will be shooting with her R7 as well as I teach her)
I am loaning her the RF 100-500 for two reasons. She needs a better lens, and it won't fit in my camera bag and also pushes the weight limit....heh heh.

 

[Only RF]

Thanks. I appreciate your comments. You have a point. I didn't use it for serious work because I am still getting used to it. It was the crop factor that was my driver here as it ought to be the natural replacement for the 7Dmk2. That camera is the one I use for wildlife. Hopefully in time Canon can improve an apsc camera as a proper successor.

NP. All depends on what you are shooting. If wildlife photography was my livelihood, particularly fast moving like birds flying then I'd have to make some choices. As for R cameras I expect them all to fail in Eye Detect. Still just a computer that is trying to figure out what you want. I'm in eye detect pretty much 100% of the time. I use the BBF for non eye detect AF modes to override Eye Detect and get the camera back on track and get it to do what I want.

Duade's examples show drifting. One example is the bird on a branch and it drifts between the bird and the branch. At 30 FPS you are going to get something in focus. As a pro and I was shooting downhill skiers and I needed every shot in focus to sell the right one I'd probably be using an R3.

Actually Jared Polin called out the 7D2 for the exact same thing. He was not well known back then and was not taken very seriously. He was right because while 7D2 is a fantastic camera AF as described by users as being a little twitchy.

Here I had my R7, 100-500 and 1.4. I was in a blind and this bird came from the left and I only had seconds. Actually I've been pretty amazed by the R7 AF overall and never really paid attention to the keeper rate which I attributed OOF as my shakiness, etc. I'll make a few changes and see. My number one complaint and the only time I've been a little disappointed with Canon is the R7 mechanical shutter. It I wanted a Jack Hammer I would have gone to Home Depot.

• Canon EOS R7
• RF100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM + EXTENDER RF1.4x
• 700.0 mm
• ƒ/10
• 1/3200 sec
• ISO 1600

 

[Only RF]

Even the R3. Watch the Canon clips between minutes 2:30 and 8 and see how he uses Expansion AF to get Eye detect back on track when it won't find the subject he wants. Once it is locked on I would expect it to stay locked on and a high keeper rate. It costs 5 times as much as the R7.

Minutes 4:00 to 4:07. Minute 5:13. Minute 5:23 and there are many more examples.

Canon R3 VS Sony a1 REAL World AF REVIEW: Not What I Expected!!!

FROPACK3 is HERE with 15 all-new custom Lightroom presets!!! Check it outhttps://froknowsphoto.com/fropack3/ (40% OFF) I took the Canon EOS R3 and the Sony a...

www.youtube.com

 

[Only RF]

Well, I have an interesting experience coming up.

Going to Africa to shoot wildlife for 3 weeks. I am taking a friend who is a novice photographer and just bought a R7 with the kit RF-S 18-150 (I think). I am loaning her my RF 100-500 as well. I am taking an OM Systems M43 OM-1 with the Oly big white (150-400 f/4.5 +1.25 TC) as well as my Canon R5 with the RF 70-200 f/2.8 and my RF 24-70 f/2.8.
It's a Pangolin Photo tour (at first) and she will have one of the Photo Guides to assist her in learning to shoot wildlife, and setting up the camera. (I'll help too, but have not been able to so far other than by email and text as we live in different states.) I had advised a R6 but budget made her get the R7 and people at BHPhoto told her the extra reach of the R7 would be an advantage in Africa.

It's going to be interesting to see how the OM-1, R7, and R5 compare. (I am sure I will be shooting with her R7 as well as I teach her)
I am loaning her the RF 100-500 for two reasons. She needs a better lens, and it won't fit in my camera bag and also pushes the weight limit....heh heh.

I'd have no issues with the R7 and 100-500 for that.

 

[ctitanic]

And your point is? I don't want or need 30fps so it's an irrelevant comparison for me. My concern is focusing anyway. I have just spent 3 hours messing with the R7 again, following all the good advice and pointers from fellow forum members. Hit rate still varies greatly but when on target its superb images all round. As I said before it's frustrating and I cannot trust the camera for any important shooting.

I can tell you one thing. This camera never have left me down in all my important shootings (graduations, traveling to other countries, birding, wildlife of all kind). Know your camera and it's limitations and you will be ok. Just enjoy your camera!

 

[Barry]

I can tell you one thing. This camera never have left me down in all my important shootings (graduations, traveling to other countries, birding, wildlife of all kind). Know your camera and it's limitations and you will be ok. Just enjoy your camera!

Yes dad!!!

 

[ctitanic]

I have shot Nikon, Sony and now Canon. Nobody is perfect and all it's about practicing to overcome the limitations of the gear. That's all it's. My last gear was Sony and it took me a week or two to get used to the R7 auto focus. To achieve a big keeper rate I'm switching constantly the AF modes and I have two AF buttons configured in the back, one of them with Tracking and Eye AF disabled.

 

[ctitanic]

Yes dad!!!

Actually, 3 times grandpa!

 

[Only RF]

I can tell you one thing. This camera never have left me down in all my important shootings (graduations, traveling to other countries, birding, wildlife of all kind). Know your camera and it's limitations and you will be ok. Just enjoy your camera!

That is why I went back to using both AF and metering on the shutter button. If I start AF and it does not find the eye or the eye I want I press a BFF. This includes birds flying, etc. I just keep toggling the one I need. AF-On = Single Point AF. * = Zone AF.

 

[ACEkin]

Well, here is a video explaining the latest updates on this topic with an input from Canon.

This video probably explains why I never had the issue.

I only use burst in H with mechanical shutter, I'm from the old guard that feels that to get 1 shot from 100s in a burst is like in some way cheating. I feel more satisfaction when I get a perfect shot pulling trigger just one time.

This is both encouraging and discouraging. The explanation this man got from Canon may be sensible to his shooting conditions. I experienced the same inconsistencies although I never shot more than one frame at a time in either high-speed shooting mode. They told me from Canon that I would be happier with an L series lens. All told, swapping the kits by my local camera store fixed my problem entirely. So, the possibility that something can be wrong with the bodies, lenses, or the kits is very real.

 

[Barry]

This is both encouraging and discouraging. The explanation this man got from Canon may be sensible to his shooting conditions. I experienced the same inconsistencies although I never shot more than one frame at a time in either high-speed shooting mode. They told me from Canon that I would be happier with an L series lens. All told, swapping the kits by my local camera store fixed my problem entirely. So, the possibility that something can be wrong with the bodies, lenses, or the kits is very real.

Agreed.I don't get why some folks are so defensive of the R7. It does have issues. Too many people agree for that to be a falsehood. I like the camera in principle but it needs sorting!

 

[ctitanic]

This is both encouraging and discouraging. The explanation this man got from Canon may be sensible to his shooting conditions. I experienced the same inconsistencies although I never shot more than one frame at a time in either high-speed shooting mode. They told me from Canon that I would be happier with an L series lens. All told, swapping the kits by my local camera store fixed my problem entirely. So, the possibility that something can be wrong with the bodies, lenses, or the kits is very real.

That's what I thought too. There is not a way that the issue was fixed for you by replacing the camera but they came out with this answer to Duade. It's not the first time that I see batches of products that are defective.

 

[ctitanic]

Just for the record, I bought my R7 when it was released more than 1 year ago and during this time I have seen 3 group of users:

1- the ones like Duade who reported AF issues that seems to be the result of using H+ and other settings that according to Canon are not "compatible" with the R7 and that for some "stupid" reason were included in the R7 specs probably as selling points.​

2- the group that has reported that after switching the camera their issues have been fixed​

3- the group that do not have any AF issues either because they are not using H+, they have found the right settings combination, they are using high end RF/EF lenses or they just got lucky and bought from the right R7 batch.​

Trying to help somebody in the 2 first groups is difficult because you need to find first if the person is using the settings that are not supposed to be used according to Canon or the camera is faulty and needs to be switched. It's understandable that a person that is in the group 2 will take any suggestion to change settings as offensive because he/she may have tried those changes unsuccessfully, they are already convinced that they are member of group 2 with a faulty camera. I assure that anyone here in this forum including me, specially me , all that we have been trying to do is to help.

If you are in group 3, it is really confusing to see comments coming from the other two groups of R7 owners. It's puzzling. I remember me asking Cemal (aka @ACEkin ) to check my pictures to see if they were sharp/in focus or not.

The bottom line is that all we are trying here is to have a healthy community of photographers, pros and hobbyists, helping each other.

​

 

[Barry]

1. You mean Duade exposed the weaknesses in the R7 which should never have occurred if the beta testing had been done properly.
2. You mean wise buyers who switched to a new R7 and that Canon was picking up on the faults and correcting them on replacement cameras.
3. You mean pot luck or users that havent explored the camera fully so havent found the problems yet.
4 Group 4 ( you missed us altogether) those of us who do test out fully the cameras we own and are therefore miffed when they turn out to have faults.We also want the same as you, a community that supports each other and we want a product that works, not a half cocked attempt at slotting into a marketplace niche. I will say again Canon has made an error in trying to do too much at a price point. What I and many others would have preferred was a replacement for the 7Dmk2 in mirrorless form. One with a superior build quality and better weather sealing, one that had a similar control set up as there was no need to radically change control layout from the DSLR layout......... I could list much more but whats the point?
My point is this, I wanted a 7Dmk2 upgrade in mirrorless form. I thought the R7 was that option but it isnt!!! Apart from image resolution my R7 is out performed every time by my 7Dmk2. That cannot be what was intended............ can it?